Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 02:40:56 pm
Downloadable:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/opplus_22.exe
Site, and FAQ:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
Stats:
Quote:
The original SFC:OP shiplist has 2370 ship entries.
The OP Plus Refit shiplist has 4062 ship entries.
.. that's almost 1700 additional ships the the shiplist.txt file.
Now I know that some of you have been waiting for this too. Well, here it is. I'm proud to present this shiplist with a very easy to use installer. (Thanks NullSoft!
).Changes since version 2.1c (20030503):
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/changes_from_2.1c_to_2.2.txt
-- Luc
PS: I recommend installing AFTER the patch is applied.
Post by: AdmiralFrey_XC on July 17, 2003, 02:44:15 pm
I'm going to head to GSA and start up a room!
WOOT !!
Thanks for all your hard work on this, and many other things FireSoul - you are a truly valuable community member.
Regards,
Post by: CptCastrin on July 17, 2003, 02:49:20 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 03:06:28 pm
Quote:
Don't forget to update your info on SFCx.net.
Done. Now it's up to you to clear out the old one, check the new one.. and maybe post a news entry for it.
-- Luc
Post by: CptCastrin on July 17, 2003, 03:18:12 pm
Great work FS, can't wait to play with this puppy.
Post by: Sten on July 17, 2003, 03:21:54 pm
Sten
Post by: Reptor7 on July 17, 2003, 04:32:37 pm
Post by: Corbomite on July 17, 2003, 05:33:42 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 17, 2003, 06:52:28 pm
Quick question: I have a batch file that automates the process for me in going from default to OP+ shiplist. Usually with OP+ updates, I'd simply port the latest ftrlist, shiplist, shipnames, strings.txt files into a folder I created called "OP+" in the assets directory, where my batch file knew to always be able to access them for the sake of altering the game (I also created an "OP" folder wherein I kept the originals to switch back).
Can I simply set my OP back to default, install the 2.2 shiplist using the auto installer, and then access the ftrlist, shiplist, shipnames, and strings files that had just been installed and use THOSE as the source for the new OP+ text files?
In other words, your autoinstaller does the exact same thing that we were doing before? No new files or new directories to install to?
Thanks!
-TF
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 07:03:40 pm
Post by: IndyShark on July 17, 2003, 07:19:17 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 17, 2003, 08:54:50 pm
Installing to a different directory and pulling out the Big Four Text Files was the ticket.
By the way, one could EASILY just move their file opplus_22.exe into their Orion Pirates folder, put a link under their Start>Program>Orion Pirates, renaming it "OP+ Shiplist," then put another shortcut link to the file "opplus_uninstall.exe" (created during the OPPlus installation in the "Starfleet Command Orion PIrates" folder), ALSO under their Start>Program>Orion Pirates, renaming it "OP Shiplist," and can easily switch between the two shiplists painlessly.
But I seriously doubt there will be much demand for switching out of the OP+ shiplist!
Thanks, again, FS!
-TF
Post by: dderidex on July 17, 2003, 11:13:43 pm
Second question (since I haven't opened it yet - still waiting on patch download):
How many different ship models did you use? Or, is this all still pointing at the stock folders?
Just curious, I'd like to use a common shiplist again (rather than my custom one), but I had different hulls for the NCA vs the NCL, for example. Taldren's default has the same model used for both.
You follow Taldren in that matter? Or, do you take a few changes to break out hull types more?
Just wondering.
Post by: Tulwar on July 17, 2003, 11:20:57 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 11:46:42 pm
As for models, not in this version. C'mon, at 224kb, you think it contains anything else?
When I do a version with models included, you'll know just by the filesize. I intend to do as well as I can with the available materials.
Post by: Cleaven on July 18, 2003, 02:36:24 am
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 09:25:35 am
Then, point the NCA hulls as the new 'NCA' folder instead of the 'NCL' folder. That way, modders can replace the NCAs with a different hull than the NCLs without having to use a custom shiplist.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 12:13:00 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 18, 2003, 01:53:35 pm
Translating SFB over to SFC while still maintaining the unique SFC feel to things. Keeping it all relative.
To that end, how individuals select their own models does directly affect [albeit minimally] how the game is played. With the right choice of model, one could easily configure one's SFC to reveal more information than one deserves early on in a match. In other words, I could make all DRONE ships, say, BLUE models. So regardless of what I'm picking up on my TacIntel, just by looking at my PC screen I can immediately tell something about my opponent. So it's kind of cheesy (albeit, as I said, of limited effect ultmately).
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there, thereby allowing some variety in models, but adhering to some common standard that enhances the gaming experience for everyone.
That's my take on it. (BTW, FireSoul, let me know if there's anything I can do to help if you decide to incorporate models... grunt-work kind of stuff
).-TF
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 02:35:55 pm
Quote:
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there,
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Not having a new model for each ship - that would be way too much work, obviously, not least of all for those of us replacing the models with higher detail ones.
Just break them down by hull type. SFC doesn't do a bad job, but, if I had to guess, I'd say SFB has about 50% more hull types in each race than SFC does. (IE., SFC pretty much just has a model for the FF, DD, CL, CA, DN, XDD, XCA). Some races (Romulans) have more, some races (Lyrans and Gorn) have less.
I'm saying just break them down by SFB hull type more. For the Feds in SFC, that's pretty much means things like, break the 'NCL' hull down to just the NCLs. This means breaking out into new hull just the NCA. I think that's it.
The Fed 'DD' hull should just represent the DD. The DW is a different hull, as is the HDW and the old CL.
See where we are going? SFB has a 'TacIntel' appendix that lists the ships by basic hull type.
Hell, you wouldn't even have to go THAT far.
Check out the online list of the 'Master Ship Charts'.
Pretty much, just one hull for each ship section. As you can see, for most races, that really isn't a lot more hull types that are already in SFC for them.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 02:54:09 pm
Quote:
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there, thereby allowing some variety in models, but adhering to some common standard that enhances the gaming experience for everyone
That's the idea.
I'd like you guys to check out the following SFC-style models:
FeralYards
Obviously, there are a lot of missing models, such as the Tugs and LTTs.. but we'll get around that for now.
-- Luc
Post by: Mr. Hypergol on July 18, 2003, 03:07:22 pm
Quote:
I'm saying just break them down by SFB hull type more.
Yes this is exactly what I would hope for.
Firesoul, if you do add models to your next shiplist the above would be much appreciated. Even if you only use Taldren-like models, having model slots for each SFB hull type allows us to insert our own models for each hull type without much difficulty.
For me it's kind of disappointing to have to use the DD model for the old Texas class CL for example.
Of course I could make the changes to the shiplist myself using the editing tools, but then I'm not "standardized", so to speak, with other OP+ shiplist users which makes things more cumbersome, especially for online play with servers using your shiplist.
Post by: jdmckinney on July 18, 2003, 03:19:43 pm
Quote:
That's the idea.
I'd like you guys to check out the following SFC-style models:
FeralYards
Obviously, there are a lot of missing models, such as the Tugs and LTTs.. but we'll get around that for now.
-- Luc
I should probably let him speak for himself, but EmeraldEdge has been dutifully slogging away at tug models conforming to SFC styles for some time now. The progress is slow, but he did show us SFCX folks a pretty (if tugs can be called that) Lyran tug model. It doesn't look like a CA with giant boxes attached to it, but rather more like a new ship. The core hull is more like a DD, I suppose, but it does have some bulk and looks like it really was built as a tug instead of a hull that slapped huge containers on in structurally unsound spots.
Hopefully he'll give you all a taste soon.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 03:25:45 pm
Quote:
I should probably let him speak for himself, but EmeraldEdge has been dutifully slogging away at tug models conforming to SFC styles for some time now. The progress is slow, but he did show us SFCX folks a pretty (if tugs can be called that) Lyran tug model. It doesn't look like a CA with giant boxes attached to it, but rather more like a new ship. The core hull is more like a DD, I suppose, but it does have some bulk and looks like it really was built as a tug instead of a hull that slapped huge containers on in structurally unsound spots.
Hopefully he'll give you all a taste soon.
He showed me yesterday.. and I told him I would describe to him how the ships need to look like if he needs the information.
Post by: Auron on July 18, 2003, 04:00:27 pm
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 04:14:10 pm
The WISE installer software can create an install script that renames and copy folders just fine.
That's why I used for the SFC3 9-ship mod pack.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:15:03 pm
Quote:
There is no NEED to include the models at all, just the directories to put them in and the proper pointers in the shiplist. Use .bat commands to copy the current models into the new directories. So to a player that didn't want anything to do with custom models would show no difference at all but for the custom modeler he/she could enjoy the game even more.
I don't like that method.
What if the installed directory isn't the default?
What if the user doesn't know where the SFC directory is on the HD? (not to mention the models)
What about ease-of-use I have just introduced in version 2.2?
What about the models.siz file?
Everyone seems to have a unique and different way of doing this. I'd like to do it my own way, with the same criticism I have given myself with the shiplist so far. Do you realize this is turning into a full-fledge mod? Please let me attend to this my own way..
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:16:37 pm
Quote:
Wouldn't even need a .bat file.
The WISE installer software can create an install script that renames and copy folders just fine.
That's why I used for the SFC3 9-ship mod pack.
I have used WISE in the past. It's a nice commercial installer software kit..
.. but I don't work there anymore since that employer went under a few years ago. Like in 2.2, I intend to use the NullSoft NSIS kit.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on July 18, 2003, 04:19:45 pm
One out of my imagination (but using a somewhat SFC style) and one trying to conform a little closer to SFB. So much the better for the community, eh? Hopefully I'll be relatively done with both tugs sometime this weekend. I miffed the textures on one, way too orange, but that's neither here nor there. Heck, I'll post the one Doug is talking about. 
This is one that is made up of a Kitbash that Attibat and I did, and all new "pods". The SFB style one will have pallets and will be based off the LCA hull so it will look much different (just need to un-miff the textures).
And for those who do not like it, it's not anything mandatory, just something I'm doing to help give some variety for when the OP+ supports new model directories. I'm not aware of that many tug models out there (especially for races other than the big 3) so I figured I'd give it a go.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:21:06 pm
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
2- Arguing about how I'm going to do it is not going to help since I already made up my mind how.
3- Which models I will use will be carefully picked. I won't mix styles too much unless it makes sense.
4- Not everybody will be happy with the results. That's also why I will have 2 downloadables.
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 04:23:22 pm
Quote:
What if the installed directory isn't the default?
Allow the user to specify the installed directory.
Quote:
What if the user doesn't know where the SFC directory is on the HD? (not to mention the models)
The models will always be in the same folder under the base SFC folder.
The base SFC folder information is stored in the registry, and WISE can read that and use it as the default.
As I did with the SFC3 mod pack.
Quote:
What about ease-of-use I have just introduced in version 2.2?
Just clicking 'Next' a bunch of times seems pretty easy to me.
Quote:
What about the models.siz file?
I am unfamiliar with what that is?
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:25:55 pm
.. as for the WISE installer, I already started with NSIS, so what's the point?
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:33:47 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Mr. Hypergol on July 18, 2003, 04:38:15 pm
Quote:
Please let me attend to this my own way..
I'm sorry. I thought you were soliciting input.....my bad. I really like the way "your way" has turned out so far. Keep up the "your way".
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:41:12 pm
Quote:Quote:
What about the models.siz file?
I am unfamiliar with what that is?
The model.siz file was introduced as an anti-cheat measure. The sizes of models from one side must match to the size of the models on the other. This file can also be used to resize models. It is checked during multiplayer games just like shiplists and other essential files are.
Before model.siz was introduced to SFC2 (thanks to Khoromag), the ability to cheat was easy.
ie: un unmodded player flew with an unmodded copy of SFC2. The enemy would hang back at range 30, pounding at him as if he's at range 0. The player did very little damage to the enemy. (range 30 being what it is)
The opponent would have a modded model for the ship in question.. .. something of the size of 30 like a planet for example. The player's model edge would be very close to the other ship while its center is still at around range 30 away.
If i am to handle models, I have to modify model.siz also, in the right way.
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:44:43 pm
Quote:
Quote:
Please let me attend to this my own way..
I'm sorry. I thought you were soliciting input.....my bad. I really like the way "your way" has turned out so far. Keep up the "your way".
Heh.. I was merely *HINTING* about what I have already started on.. I have it in hand, but there's a LOT of work to do, yet.
Post by: MadElf on July 18, 2003, 05:05:54 pm
Quote:
Folks, I think there are a few things you need to know about the next version and how I will include models..
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
2- Arguing about how I'm going to do it is not going to help since I already made up my mind how.
3- Which models I will use will be carefully picked. I won't mix styles too much unless it makes sense.
4- Not everybody will be happy with the results. That's also why I will have 2 downloadables.
FS, you kick butt man, do the models in whatever manner you like! GREAT SHIPLIST TOO! Love the B racks on the X1, just makes em look better as well as fight better, and the new ships are cool too. Heck, there are even a few klingon ones I'd be seen flying
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 05:23:27 pm
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on July 18, 2003, 07:35:34 pm
Quote:
Heh, so now I'm working on two sets.
This is one that is made up of a Kitbash that Attibat and I did, and all new "pods". The SFB style one will have pallets and will be based off the LCA hull so it will look much different (just need to un-miff the textures).
And for those who do not like it, it's not anything mandatory, just something I'm doing to help give some variety for when the OP+ supports new model directories. I'm not aware of that many tug models out there (especially for races other than the big 3) so I figured I'd give it a go.
Yeah! More Ships!
Thank you Firesoul, EmeraldEdge and company.
KF
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 07:45:51 pm
Quote:
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
That's why I was pushing for just copying the existing folders and leaving it up to modders to work with or not. Only 1 download needed, then, and it would still be small.
I wouldn't want to see 2 downloads of different shiplists (one with new models, one without).
Not if it can be avoided.
I mean, really, how many D2 servers are running the OP+ pack right now? A few? And you want to divide that up even further between 'OP+ with extra ship models' and 'OP+ without'?
As it is now is...okay. If you wanted to break out the hull types more, I'd really rather you just copy the existing model folders used, and use those - so a single shiplist could be used for all.
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 09:07:27 pm
The first installer install OP+, and the *structure* needed to add models, ie, the directory trick that's being talked about here.
The second installer not install OP+, but just the models that will be produced to support OP+, meaning that it would fill the structure created by the first installer. So long as the default models in use now match up in size to the models that replace them, I'm hoping that the siz file won't have to be adversely affected.
Other than HD size requirements expanding, this should allow peaceful intergration of OP+, OP+ with models, maintain the newfound ease of installation, and allow them both to play on the same dynaverse/gsa without problem.
A simple suggestion,
Holocat.
Post by: Cleaven on July 18, 2003, 09:19:03 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 10:59:50 pm
Quote:Quote:
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
That's why I was pushing for just copying the existing folders and leaving it up to modders to work with or not. Only 1 download needed, then, and it would still be small.
I wouldn't want to see 2 downloads of different shiplists (one with new models, one without).
Just let me do my stuff.
There's going to be 2 downloadables.. and the two will have EXACTLY the same shiplist.txt, etc.. and will be fully compatible to each other. Yes, the small one would be copying Models files from the current SFC stuff to compensate.
This is already happening, so please don't try to convince me otherwise.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:03:25 pm
Quote:
How about:
The first installer install OP+, and the *structure* needed to add models, ie, the directory trick that's being talked about here.
The second installer not install OP+, but just the models that will be produced to support OP+, meaning that it would fill the structure created by the first installer. So long as the default models in use now match up in size to the models that replace them, I'm hoping that the siz file won't have to be adversely affected.
Other than HD size requirements expanding, this should allow peaceful intergration of OP+, OP+ with models, maintain the newfound ease of installation, and allow them both to play on the same dynaverse/gsa without problem.
A simple suggestion,
Holocat.
Hey Holo..
.. I have the installers already figured out... and working.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:03:43 pm
Quote:
That suits me. All I want is a couple of models to differentiate the Romulan Kestrels from the Klingon ships.
Elaborate?
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 11:12:57 pm
Ah well. Since Emerald Edge is picking up the ball on this, i've offered my support. That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
Ah well. His is better anyway.
Will replacing textures be a problem for multiplayer capability? I'll probably have to do this to save some processor time if I get the yet-to-come model pack for OP+.
The-cat-who-is-slow-on-the-uptake-today,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:15:09 pm
Quote:
I should type my replies faster next time.
Ah well. Since Emerald Edge is picking up the ball on this, i've offered my support. That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I found your work good.. don't worry.
.. although the Gorn ship isn't applicable to me anymore since I've switched their looks completely. :P~
Quote:
Will replacing textures be a problem for multiplayer capability? I'll probably have to do this to save some processor time if I get the yet-to-come model pack for OP+.
It shouldn't. Models are loaded at mission-start.
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 11:21:59 pm
*THUD*
The-cat-who-has-been-given-a-lurid-hint-at-what-is-to-come,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:51:57 pm
Quote:
You switched out all the gorn models?
*THUD*
The-cat-who-has-been-given-a-lurid-hint-at-what-is-to-come,
Holocat.
Gorn Heavy Cruiser
Post by: Holocat on July 19, 2003, 12:03:00 am
pawing at the wave of OP+ future,
Holocat.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on July 19, 2003, 03:04:17 am
Quote:
That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I doubt it, has Doug seen your work? I don't seem to recall seeing it before, but perhaps I just don't remember. I think the comment was generally in reference to the way the "standard" tugs tend to drop a pod beneath and slightly behind and then additional pods behind even that, so it looks like they are streaming pods out the back. At least that's what I took from that comment.
OH, those gorn! I love those so much, I need to download them again in case anything happens to them. They are about as close to perfection as can be, imo.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 03:19:21 am
Quote:
OH, those gorn! I love those so much, I need to download them again in case anything happens to them. They are about as close to perfection as can be, imo.
You're telling me! .. I mirrored that site. You know, just in case.
.. and if you can make a tug based on those, I will help you with any details you may want. Of course, you'll have to contact the author(s) there to tell them you used his/her/their material..
Btw, I am considering a few ships from Fleetdock 13 also.. notably the D5s. With these, I can cover for the D5s, D5Hs (LTT), D5Ws (NCAs), and Romulan versions of the previous. I am pleased with the results there.
Also, a little bit of model.siz magic: use the same model 3 times, but copied to different directories. All would have identical content, but different filenames. What am I talking about?!?
Here's the extract of model.siz:
ASSETS\MODELS\RCA\RCA.MOD 8.10
ASSETS\MODELS\RCA\RCA_BRK.MOD 8.07
..
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKR\RKR.MOD 7.50
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKR\RKR_BRK.MOD 7.50
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKRC\RKRC.MOD 9.00
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKRC\RKRC_BRK.MOD 9.00
The RCA's the original Taldren model. It's the Romulan Klingon CA hull conversion. It covers all RCA variants, from the KR to the KCR. .. what I did is simply have it copied to a new set of directories, and gave the new models different sizes by stating the wanted size in 'models.siz'. I made sure the sizes matched ships of same size elsewhere in shiplist. A K-D6 is same size as a Y-D6 and a R-KR.
.. Don't you see? The ships using the RKR model are now just slightly smaller than the standard RCA ones. Also, the RKCR ships are just slightly larger.
.. the possibilities are interesting. I could have different sized-classes using same models data. I think the G2s, E3s and E4s are next. The Bird of Prey model is nicer than others I've seen for these ships, so having different sized BoPs works nicely.
-- Luc
PS. No, I am not including Taldren raw material. The installer's copying them from Assets/Models/ and manipulating them at install time. But whatever the method, the result's nice.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 03:33:15 am
The sizes aren't that noticeable, but look again: compare the KR (left) with the KCR (right)
Post by: feargusf on July 19, 2003, 03:51:29 am
BTW, there's a shy little kid inside of me that just loves the fact that, if I so desire, I can fly an R-SEX now.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 05:17:56 am
Quote:
BTW, there's a shy little kid inside of me that just loves the fact that, if I so desire, I can fly an R-SEX now.
.. heh.. is she too young to understand that there's also a R-SUK?
Post by: jdmckinney on July 19, 2003, 12:29:10 pm
Quote:Quote:
That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I doubt it, has Doug seen your work? I don't seem to recall seeing it before, but perhaps I just don't remember. I think the comment was generally in reference to the way the "standard" tugs tend to drop a pod beneath and slightly behind and then additional pods behind even that, so it looks like they are streaming pods out the back. At least that's what I took from that comment.
Yes, I'm specifically talking about SFB tugs as pictured in ADB's publications. I am not much of a model collector, so I haven't seen 90+% of what's out there, and in fact the last time I went looking for tugs, there weren't more than a handful available among all the races.
Post by: IndyShark on July 20, 2003, 10:27:13 am
Post by: dderidex on July 20, 2003, 12:09:40 pm
Looks good.
Here's hoping I can still use the 'D2 Model pack' (all those FASA ships) to replace models with without any problems!
Nice work - and the Gorn, especially. I wasn't looking forward to having to replace all those ships myself!
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 12:47:33 pm
Quote:
Firesoul, I love what you have done to the Pirates! They have some nice ships now and with engine doubling, I can see people flying them once in a while.
Just better variants with weapons.. They've been there for a while.
.. with AI engine doubling, it makes them challenging opponents too.
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 12:50:27 pm
Quote:
Think I'll wait for this next update, then, before replacing my shiplist.
Looks good.
Here's hoping I can still use the 'D2 Model pack' (all those FASA ships) to replace models with without any problems!
Nice work - and the Gorn, especially. I wasn't looking forward to having to replace all those ships myself!
I won't necessarily be using FASA ships.. (or most probably not, actually).. but it will make it much easier for you to plug them in without triggering cheat-detection errors. Just don't touch the model.siz file and shiplist.txt file with the next release.
.. but the release needs time to complete.
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 05:13:57 pm
Another idea I have had:
.. to edit Taldren skins to create Taldren-based skin variants with landing bays on same models.
ie:
Mirak:
Z-CA -> Z-CV
Z-DN -> Z-CVA, Z-SCS
Z-CL -> Z-CVL
Z-DD -> Z-DDV
BCV could use the Z-CV's. The MCV's could use a copy of the CVL's, but resized via model.siz..
ISC:
I-CA -> I-CV
I-DN -> I-CVA
I-CL -> I-CVL
I-FF -> I-FFV
BCV could use the I-CV's.
Post by: VelvetAcidChrist on July 21, 2003, 05:02:54 am
plus its like kryptic glyphs if u imagine all those names from ships and description......noone can tell me that the "normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 07:15:45 am
Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
Post by: Cleaven on July 21, 2003, 08:01:01 am
Quote:Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
I should imagine that they are all playing SFC:TNG.
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 09:35:21 am
Quote:Quote:Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
I should imagine that they are all playing SFC:TNG.
I play that as well, but that doesn't make me any more normal.
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 09:55:21 am
Post by: Reverend on July 21, 2003, 10:18:50 am
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 10:21:50 am
Quote:
Just going to batter that normal statement to death, aren't you? You must be ill... you didn't say SFB after every sentence. Being here is like a bad game of Simon Says.
I'm not sure I recall asking you anything.
But Have a nice day.
Post by: FireSoul on July 21, 2003, 02:39:29 pm
Quote:
Hey, do they EAW mission and such still work with the new patch or do they need to be changed??
They should work fine. Most of the stock missions are from pre-patch themselves. (Monster mission was fixed for a victory-level related bug, but I bet it could be copied onto an earlier version and be used normally)
Post by: FireSoul on July 22, 2003, 07:34:41 pm
OP+ 3.0 work progresses. Go check out the tugs that EmeraldEdge has been putting together (some for me):
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=131264&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1
-- Luc
Post by: Jwest on July 23, 2003, 05:25:40 pm
It's fun, but sick . . .
Post by: FireSoul on July 23, 2003, 05:53:13 pm
Quote:
Firesoul - having just started playing again after a considerable hiatus, I'd like to say that the KR7X (X-Stormbird, basically) is just plain wrong. I'm flying it, and it's fun as heck, but it is still just wrong. Gorn firing arcs, Romulan heavy Weapon, Federation shielding and Klingon Manueverabilty. with X-inside . . .
It's fun, but sick . . .
I didn't invent it.
.. the thing is, it's not overboard, since soon enough later, the Taldren "X2" ships come into play and will blow these away.
Also, the KR7X's BPV is what.. 280? .. it's heavier than a DNH.
-- Luc
Post by: Jwest on July 28, 2003, 07:01:10 pm
Quote:Quote:
Firesoul - having just started playing again after a considerable hiatus, I'd like to say that the KR7X (X-Stormbird, basically) is just plain wrong. I'm flying it, and it's fun as heck, but it is still just wrong. Gorn firing arcs, Romulan heavy Weapon, Federation shielding and Klingon Manueverabilty. with X-inside . . .
It's fun, but sick . . .
I didn't invent it.
.. the thing is, it's not overboard, since soon enough later, the Taldren "X2" ships come into play and will blow these away.
Also, the KR7X's BPV is what.. 280? .. it's heavier than a DNH.
-- Luc
Thus far, actually no, they don't. The K7X stands quite handily against an X-2 providing you remember that you don't want to go directly head to head. Even the XCB bomardment cruiser only outguns the K7X by 30 BPV or so.
Not that I'm complaining mind you.
Post by: FireSoul on July 30, 2003, 02:03:10 am
I revamped the main site into a more manageable webpage. This is actually going to be useful to anyone who have questions. After all, the pages act like they're a big FAQ (there's an increadible ammount of documentation there for a shiplist project).
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
Post by: FireSoul on July 30, 2003, 08:40:45 am
Post by: dderidex on August 01, 2003, 04:23:29 pm
If that's the version that starts breaking out some more hull types, I will most definately be moving over from my own custom shiplist to this one.
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 02:40:56 pm
Downloadable:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/opplus_22.exe
Site, and FAQ:
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
Stats:
Quote:
The original SFC:OP shiplist has 2370 ship entries.
The OP Plus Refit shiplist has 4062 ship entries.
.. that's almost 1700 additional ships the the shiplist.txt file.
Now I know that some of you have been waiting for this too. Well, here it is. I'm proud to present this shiplist with a very easy to use installer. (Thanks NullSoft!
).Changes since version 2.1c (20030503):
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/changes_from_2.1c_to_2.2.txt
-- Luc
PS: I recommend installing AFTER the patch is applied.
Post by: AdmiralFrey_XC on July 17, 2003, 02:44:15 pm
I'm going to head to GSA and start up a room!
WOOT !!
Thanks for all your hard work on this, and many other things FireSoul - you are a truly valuable community member.
Regards,
Post by: CptCastrin on July 17, 2003, 02:49:20 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 03:06:28 pm
Quote:
Don't forget to update your info on SFCx.net.
Done. Now it's up to you to clear out the old one, check the new one.. and maybe post a news entry for it.
-- Luc
Post by: CptCastrin on July 17, 2003, 03:18:12 pm
Great work FS, can't wait to play with this puppy.
Post by: Sten on July 17, 2003, 03:21:54 pm
Sten
Post by: Reptor7 on July 17, 2003, 04:32:37 pm
Post by: Corbomite on July 17, 2003, 05:33:42 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 17, 2003, 06:52:28 pm
Quick question: I have a batch file that automates the process for me in going from default to OP+ shiplist. Usually with OP+ updates, I'd simply port the latest ftrlist, shiplist, shipnames, strings.txt files into a folder I created called "OP+" in the assets directory, where my batch file knew to always be able to access them for the sake of altering the game (I also created an "OP" folder wherein I kept the originals to switch back).
Can I simply set my OP back to default, install the 2.2 shiplist using the auto installer, and then access the ftrlist, shiplist, shipnames, and strings files that had just been installed and use THOSE as the source for the new OP+ text files?
In other words, your autoinstaller does the exact same thing that we were doing before? No new files or new directories to install to?
Thanks!
-TF
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 07:03:40 pm
Post by: IndyShark on July 17, 2003, 07:19:17 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 17, 2003, 08:54:50 pm
Installing to a different directory and pulling out the Big Four Text Files was the ticket.
By the way, one could EASILY just move their file opplus_22.exe into their Orion Pirates folder, put a link under their Start>Program>Orion Pirates, renaming it "OP+ Shiplist," then put another shortcut link to the file "opplus_uninstall.exe" (created during the OPPlus installation in the "Starfleet Command Orion PIrates" folder), ALSO under their Start>Program>Orion Pirates, renaming it "OP Shiplist," and can easily switch between the two shiplists painlessly.
But I seriously doubt there will be much demand for switching out of the OP+ shiplist!
Thanks, again, FS!
-TF
Post by: dderidex on July 17, 2003, 11:13:43 pm
Second question (since I haven't opened it yet - still waiting on patch download):
How many different ship models did you use? Or, is this all still pointing at the stock folders?
Just curious, I'd like to use a common shiplist again (rather than my custom one), but I had different hulls for the NCA vs the NCL, for example. Taldren's default has the same model used for both.
You follow Taldren in that matter? Or, do you take a few changes to break out hull types more?
Just wondering.
Post by: Tulwar on July 17, 2003, 11:20:57 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 17, 2003, 11:46:42 pm
As for models, not in this version. C'mon, at 224kb, you think it contains anything else?
When I do a version with models included, you'll know just by the filesize. I intend to do as well as I can with the available materials.
Post by: Cleaven on July 18, 2003, 02:36:24 am
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 09:25:35 am
Then, point the NCA hulls as the new 'NCA' folder instead of the 'NCL' folder. That way, modders can replace the NCAs with a different hull than the NCLs without having to use a custom shiplist.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 12:13:00 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on July 18, 2003, 01:53:35 pm
Translating SFB over to SFC while still maintaining the unique SFC feel to things. Keeping it all relative.
To that end, how individuals select their own models does directly affect [albeit minimally] how the game is played. With the right choice of model, one could easily configure one's SFC to reveal more information than one deserves early on in a match. In other words, I could make all DRONE ships, say, BLUE models. So regardless of what I'm picking up on my TacIntel, just by looking at my PC screen I can immediately tell something about my opponent. So it's kind of cheesy (albeit, as I said, of limited effect ultmately).
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there, thereby allowing some variety in models, but adhering to some common standard that enhances the gaming experience for everyone.
That's my take on it. (BTW, FireSoul, let me know if there's anything I can do to help if you decide to incorporate models... grunt-work kind of stuff
).-TF
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 02:35:55 pm
Quote:
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there,
That's exactly what I was thinking.
Not having a new model for each ship - that would be way too much work, obviously, not least of all for those of us replacing the models with higher detail ones.
Just break them down by hull type. SFC doesn't do a bad job, but, if I had to guess, I'd say SFB has about 50% more hull types in each race than SFC does. (IE., SFC pretty much just has a model for the FF, DD, CL, CA, DN, XDD, XCA). Some races (Romulans) have more, some races (Lyrans and Gorn) have less.
I'm saying just break them down by SFB hull type more. For the Feds in SFC, that's pretty much means things like, break the 'NCL' hull down to just the NCLs. This means breaking out into new hull just the NCA. I think that's it.
The Fed 'DD' hull should just represent the DD. The DW is a different hull, as is the HDW and the old CL.
See where we are going? SFB has a 'TacIntel' appendix that lists the ships by basic hull type.
Hell, you wouldn't even have to go THAT far.
Check out the online list of the 'Master Ship Charts'.
Pretty much, just one hull for each ship section. As you can see, for most races, that really isn't a lot more hull types that are already in SFC for them.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 02:54:09 pm
Quote:
Since SFB has definitive listings for HULL TYPES, one can definitely make some generalizations as to which models correspond to which SFB-Hull Types, and take it from there, thereby allowing some variety in models, but adhering to some common standard that enhances the gaming experience for everyone
That's the idea.
I'd like you guys to check out the following SFC-style models:
FeralYards
Obviously, there are a lot of missing models, such as the Tugs and LTTs.. but we'll get around that for now.
-- Luc
Post by: Mr. Hypergol on July 18, 2003, 03:07:22 pm
Quote:
I'm saying just break them down by SFB hull type more.
Yes this is exactly what I would hope for.
Firesoul, if you do add models to your next shiplist the above would be much appreciated. Even if you only use Taldren-like models, having model slots for each SFB hull type allows us to insert our own models for each hull type without much difficulty.
For me it's kind of disappointing to have to use the DD model for the old Texas class CL for example.
Of course I could make the changes to the shiplist myself using the editing tools, but then I'm not "standardized", so to speak, with other OP+ shiplist users which makes things more cumbersome, especially for online play with servers using your shiplist.
Post by: jdmckinney on July 18, 2003, 03:19:43 pm
Quote:
That's the idea.
I'd like you guys to check out the following SFC-style models:
FeralYards
Obviously, there are a lot of missing models, such as the Tugs and LTTs.. but we'll get around that for now.
-- Luc
I should probably let him speak for himself, but EmeraldEdge has been dutifully slogging away at tug models conforming to SFC styles for some time now. The progress is slow, but he did show us SFCX folks a pretty (if tugs can be called that) Lyran tug model. It doesn't look like a CA with giant boxes attached to it, but rather more like a new ship. The core hull is more like a DD, I suppose, but it does have some bulk and looks like it really was built as a tug instead of a hull that slapped huge containers on in structurally unsound spots.
Hopefully he'll give you all a taste soon.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 03:25:45 pm
Quote:
I should probably let him speak for himself, but EmeraldEdge has been dutifully slogging away at tug models conforming to SFC styles for some time now. The progress is slow, but he did show us SFCX folks a pretty (if tugs can be called that) Lyran tug model. It doesn't look like a CA with giant boxes attached to it, but rather more like a new ship. The core hull is more like a DD, I suppose, but it does have some bulk and looks like it really was built as a tug instead of a hull that slapped huge containers on in structurally unsound spots.
Hopefully he'll give you all a taste soon.
He showed me yesterday.. and I told him I would describe to him how the ships need to look like if he needs the information.
Post by: Auron on July 18, 2003, 04:00:27 pm
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 04:14:10 pm
The WISE installer software can create an install script that renames and copy folders just fine.
That's why I used for the SFC3 9-ship mod pack.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:15:03 pm
Quote:
There is no NEED to include the models at all, just the directories to put them in and the proper pointers in the shiplist. Use .bat commands to copy the current models into the new directories. So to a player that didn't want anything to do with custom models would show no difference at all but for the custom modeler he/she could enjoy the game even more.
I don't like that method.
What if the installed directory isn't the default?
What if the user doesn't know where the SFC directory is on the HD? (not to mention the models)
What about ease-of-use I have just introduced in version 2.2?
What about the models.siz file?
Everyone seems to have a unique and different way of doing this. I'd like to do it my own way, with the same criticism I have given myself with the shiplist so far. Do you realize this is turning into a full-fledge mod? Please let me attend to this my own way..
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:16:37 pm
Quote:
Wouldn't even need a .bat file.
The WISE installer software can create an install script that renames and copy folders just fine.
That's why I used for the SFC3 9-ship mod pack.
I have used WISE in the past. It's a nice commercial installer software kit..
.. but I don't work there anymore since that employer went under a few years ago. Like in 2.2, I intend to use the NullSoft NSIS kit.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on July 18, 2003, 04:19:45 pm
One out of my imagination (but using a somewhat SFC style) and one trying to conform a little closer to SFB. So much the better for the community, eh? Hopefully I'll be relatively done with both tugs sometime this weekend. I miffed the textures on one, way too orange, but that's neither here nor there. Heck, I'll post the one Doug is talking about. This is one that is made up of a Kitbash that Attibat and I did, and all new "pods". The SFB style one will have pallets and will be based off the LCA hull so it will look much different (just need to un-miff the textures).
And for those who do not like it, it's not anything mandatory, just something I'm doing to help give some variety for when the OP+ supports new model directories. I'm not aware of that many tug models out there (especially for races other than the big 3) so I figured I'd give it a go.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:21:06 pm
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
2- Arguing about how I'm going to do it is not going to help since I already made up my mind how.
3- Which models I will use will be carefully picked. I won't mix styles too much unless it makes sense.
4- Not everybody will be happy with the results. That's also why I will have 2 downloadables.
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 04:23:22 pm
Quote:
What if the installed directory isn't the default?
Allow the user to specify the installed directory.
Quote:
What if the user doesn't know where the SFC directory is on the HD? (not to mention the models)
The models will always be in the same folder under the base SFC folder.
The base SFC folder information is stored in the registry, and WISE can read that and use it as the default.
As I did with the SFC3 mod pack.
Quote:
What about ease-of-use I have just introduced in version 2.2?
Just clicking 'Next' a bunch of times seems pretty easy to me.
Quote:
What about the models.siz file?
I am unfamiliar with what that is?
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:25:55 pm
.. as for the WISE installer, I already started with NSIS, so what's the point?
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:33:47 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Mr. Hypergol on July 18, 2003, 04:38:15 pm
Quote:
Please let me attend to this my own way..
I'm sorry. I thought you were soliciting input.....my bad. I really like the way "your way" has turned out so far. Keep up the "your way".
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:41:12 pm
Quote:Quote:
What about the models.siz file?
I am unfamiliar with what that is?
The model.siz file was introduced as an anti-cheat measure. The sizes of models from one side must match to the size of the models on the other. This file can also be used to resize models. It is checked during multiplayer games just like shiplists and other essential files are.
Before model.siz was introduced to SFC2 (thanks to Khoromag), the ability to cheat was easy.
ie: un unmodded player flew with an unmodded copy of SFC2. The enemy would hang back at range 30, pounding at him as if he's at range 0. The player did very little damage to the enemy. (range 30 being what it is)
The opponent would have a modded model for the ship in question.. .. something of the size of 30 like a planet for example. The player's model edge would be very close to the other ship while its center is still at around range 30 away.
If i am to handle models, I have to modify model.siz also, in the right way.
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 04:44:43 pm
Quote:
Quote:
Please let me attend to this my own way..
I'm sorry. I thought you were soliciting input.....my bad. I really like the way "your way" has turned out so far. Keep up the "your way".
Heh.. I was merely *HINTING* about what I have already started on.. I have it in hand, but there's a LOT of work to do, yet.
Post by: MadElf on July 18, 2003, 05:05:54 pm
Quote:
Folks, I think there are a few things you need to know about the next version and how I will include models..
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
2- Arguing about how I'm going to do it is not going to help since I already made up my mind how.
3- Which models I will use will be carefully picked. I won't mix styles too much unless it makes sense.
4- Not everybody will be happy with the results. That's also why I will have 2 downloadables.
FS, you kick butt man, do the models in whatever manner you like! GREAT SHIPLIST TOO! Love the B racks on the X1, just makes em look better as well as fight better, and the new ships are cool too. Heck, there are even a few klingon ones I'd be seen flying
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 05:23:27 pm
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on July 18, 2003, 07:35:34 pm
Quote:
Heh, so now I'm working on two sets.
This is one that is made up of a Kitbash that Attibat and I did, and all new "pods". The SFB style one will have pallets and will be based off the LCA hull so it will look much different (just need to un-miff the textures).
And for those who do not like it, it's not anything mandatory, just something I'm doing to help give some variety for when the OP+ supports new model directories. I'm not aware of that many tug models out there (especially for races other than the big 3) so I figured I'd give it a go.
Yeah! More Ships!
Thank you Firesoul, EmeraldEdge and company.
KF
Post by: dderidex on July 18, 2003, 07:45:51 pm
Quote:
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
That's why I was pushing for just copying the existing folders and leaving it up to modders to work with or not. Only 1 download needed, then, and it would still be small.
I wouldn't want to see 2 downloads of different shiplists (one with new models, one without).
Not if it can be avoided.
I mean, really, how many D2 servers are running the OP+ pack right now? A few? And you want to divide that up even further between 'OP+ with extra ship models' and 'OP+ without'?
As it is now is...okay. If you wanted to break out the hull types more, I'd really rather you just copy the existing model folders used, and use those - so a single shiplist could be used for all.
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 09:07:27 pm
The first installer install OP+, and the *structure* needed to add models, ie, the directory trick that's being talked about here.
The second installer not install OP+, but just the models that will be produced to support OP+, meaning that it would fill the structure created by the first installer. So long as the default models in use now match up in size to the models that replace them, I'm hoping that the siz file won't have to be adversely affected.
Other than HD size requirements expanding, this should allow peaceful intergration of OP+, OP+ with models, maintain the newfound ease of installation, and allow them both to play on the same dynaverse/gsa without problem.
A simple suggestion,
Holocat.
Post by: Cleaven on July 18, 2003, 09:19:03 pm
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 10:59:50 pm
Quote:Quote:
1- The current shiplist kit is around 250kb. Modem users LOVE that. I intend to maintain support to these users. That means I will probably have 2 downloadables.
That's why I was pushing for just copying the existing folders and leaving it up to modders to work with or not. Only 1 download needed, then, and it would still be small.
I wouldn't want to see 2 downloads of different shiplists (one with new models, one without).
Just let me do my stuff.
There's going to be 2 downloadables.. and the two will have EXACTLY the same shiplist.txt, etc.. and will be fully compatible to each other. Yes, the small one would be copying Models files from the current SFC stuff to compensate.
This is already happening, so please don't try to convince me otherwise.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:03:25 pm
Quote:
How about:
The first installer install OP+, and the *structure* needed to add models, ie, the directory trick that's being talked about here.
The second installer not install OP+, but just the models that will be produced to support OP+, meaning that it would fill the structure created by the first installer. So long as the default models in use now match up in size to the models that replace them, I'm hoping that the siz file won't have to be adversely affected.
Other than HD size requirements expanding, this should allow peaceful intergration of OP+, OP+ with models, maintain the newfound ease of installation, and allow them both to play on the same dynaverse/gsa without problem.
A simple suggestion,
Holocat.
Hey Holo..
.. I have the installers already figured out... and working.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:03:43 pm
Quote:
That suits me. All I want is a couple of models to differentiate the Romulan Kestrels from the Klingon ships.
Elaborate?
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 11:12:57 pm
Ah well. Since Emerald Edge is picking up the ball on this, i've offered my support. That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
Ah well. His is better anyway.
Will replacing textures be a problem for multiplayer capability? I'll probably have to do this to save some processor time if I get the yet-to-come model pack for OP+.
The-cat-who-is-slow-on-the-uptake-today,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:15:09 pm
Quote:
I should type my replies faster next time.
Ah well. Since Emerald Edge is picking up the ball on this, i've offered my support. That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I found your work good.. don't worry.
.. although the Gorn ship isn't applicable to me anymore since I've switched their looks completely. :P~
Quote:
Will replacing textures be a problem for multiplayer capability? I'll probably have to do this to save some processor time if I get the yet-to-come model pack for OP+.
It shouldn't. Models are loaded at mission-start.
Post by: Holocat on July 18, 2003, 11:21:59 pm
*THUD*
The-cat-who-has-been-given-a-lurid-hint-at-what-is-to-come,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on July 18, 2003, 11:51:57 pm
Quote:
You switched out all the gorn models?
*THUD*
The-cat-who-has-been-given-a-lurid-hint-at-what-is-to-come,
Holocat.
Gorn Heavy Cruiser
Post by: Holocat on July 19, 2003, 12:03:00 am
pawing at the wave of OP+ future,
Holocat.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on July 19, 2003, 03:04:17 am
Quote:
That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I doubt it, has Doug seen your work? I don't seem to recall seeing it before, but perhaps I just don't remember. I think the comment was generally in reference to the way the "standard" tugs tend to drop a pod beneath and slightly behind and then additional pods behind even that, so it looks like they are streaming pods out the back. At least that's what I took from that comment.
OH, those gorn! I love those so much, I need to download them again in case anything happens to them. They are about as close to perfection as can be, imo.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 03:19:21 am
Quote:
OH, those gorn! I love those so much, I need to download them again in case anything happens to them. They are about as close to perfection as can be, imo.
You're telling me! .. I mirrored that site. You know, just in case.
.. and if you can make a tug based on those, I will help you with any details you may want. Of course, you'll have to contact the author(s) there to tell them you used his/her/their material..
Btw, I am considering a few ships from Fleetdock 13 also.. notably the D5s. With these, I can cover for the D5s, D5Hs (LTT), D5Ws (NCAs), and Romulan versions of the previous. I am pleased with the results there.
Also, a little bit of model.siz magic: use the same model 3 times, but copied to different directories. All would have identical content, but different filenames. What am I talking about?!?
Here's the extract of model.siz:
ASSETS\MODELS\RCA\RCA.MOD 8.10
ASSETS\MODELS\RCA\RCA_BRK.MOD 8.07
..
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKR\RKR.MOD 7.50
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKR\RKR_BRK.MOD 7.50
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKRC\RKRC.MOD 9.00
OPPLUS\MODELS\RKRC\RKRC_BRK.MOD 9.00
The RCA's the original Taldren model. It's the Romulan Klingon CA hull conversion. It covers all RCA variants, from the KR to the KCR. .. what I did is simply have it copied to a new set of directories, and gave the new models different sizes by stating the wanted size in 'models.siz'. I made sure the sizes matched ships of same size elsewhere in shiplist. A K-D6 is same size as a Y-D6 and a R-KR.
.. Don't you see? The ships using the RKR model are now just slightly smaller than the standard RCA ones. Also, the RKCR ships are just slightly larger.
.. the possibilities are interesting. I could have different sized-classes using same models data. I think the G2s, E3s and E4s are next. The Bird of Prey model is nicer than others I've seen for these ships, so having different sized BoPs works nicely.
-- Luc
PS. No, I am not including Taldren raw material. The installer's copying them from Assets/Models/ and manipulating them at install time. But whatever the method, the result's nice.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 03:33:15 am
The sizes aren't that noticeable, but look again: compare the KR (left) with the KCR (right)
Post by: feargusf on July 19, 2003, 03:51:29 am
BTW, there's a shy little kid inside of me that just loves the fact that, if I so desire, I can fly an R-SEX now.
Post by: FireSoul on July 19, 2003, 05:17:56 am
Quote:
BTW, there's a shy little kid inside of me that just loves the fact that, if I so desire, I can fly an R-SEX now.
.. heh.. is she too young to understand that there's also a R-SUK?
Post by: jdmckinney on July 19, 2003, 12:29:10 pm
Quote:Quote:
That comment about 'cruisers with boxes behind them' isn't in reference to my unfinished version of that tug is it?
I doubt it, has Doug seen your work? I don't seem to recall seeing it before, but perhaps I just don't remember. I think the comment was generally in reference to the way the "standard" tugs tend to drop a pod beneath and slightly behind and then additional pods behind even that, so it looks like they are streaming pods out the back. At least that's what I took from that comment.
Yes, I'm specifically talking about SFB tugs as pictured in ADB's publications. I am not much of a model collector, so I haven't seen 90+% of what's out there, and in fact the last time I went looking for tugs, there weren't more than a handful available among all the races.
Post by: IndyShark on July 20, 2003, 10:27:13 am
Post by: dderidex on July 20, 2003, 12:09:40 pm
Looks good.
Here's hoping I can still use the 'D2 Model pack' (all those FASA ships) to replace models with without any problems!
Nice work - and the Gorn, especially. I wasn't looking forward to having to replace all those ships myself!
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 12:47:33 pm
Quote:
Firesoul, I love what you have done to the Pirates! They have some nice ships now and with engine doubling, I can see people flying them once in a while.
Just better variants with weapons.. They've been there for a while.
.. with AI engine doubling, it makes them challenging opponents too.
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 12:50:27 pm
Quote:
Think I'll wait for this next update, then, before replacing my shiplist.
Looks good.
Here's hoping I can still use the 'D2 Model pack' (all those FASA ships) to replace models with without any problems!
Nice work - and the Gorn, especially. I wasn't looking forward to having to replace all those ships myself!
I won't necessarily be using FASA ships.. (or most probably not, actually).. but it will make it much easier for you to plug them in without triggering cheat-detection errors. Just don't touch the model.siz file and shiplist.txt file with the next release.
.. but the release needs time to complete.
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on July 20, 2003, 05:13:57 pm
Another idea I have had:
.. to edit Taldren skins to create Taldren-based skin variants with landing bays on same models.
ie:
Mirak:
Z-CA -> Z-CV
Z-DN -> Z-CVA, Z-SCS
Z-CL -> Z-CVL
Z-DD -> Z-DDV
BCV could use the Z-CV's. The MCV's could use a copy of the CVL's, but resized via model.siz..
ISC:
I-CA -> I-CV
I-DN -> I-CVA
I-CL -> I-CVL
I-FF -> I-FFV
BCV could use the I-CV's.
Post by: VelvetAcidChrist on July 21, 2003, 05:02:54 am
plus its like kryptic glyphs if u imagine all those names from ships and description......noone can tell me that the "normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 07:15:45 am
Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
Post by: Cleaven on July 21, 2003, 08:01:01 am
Quote:Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
I should imagine that they are all playing SFC:TNG.
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 09:35:21 am
Quote:Quote:Quote:
"normal" sfc player knows what it stands for
Just what is a "normal" sfc player......haven't found one yet.
I should imagine that they are all playing SFC:TNG.
I play that as well, but that doesn't make me any more normal.
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 09:55:21 am
Post by: Reverend on July 21, 2003, 10:18:50 am
Post by: Auron on July 21, 2003, 10:21:50 am
Quote:
Just going to batter that normal statement to death, aren't you? You must be ill... you didn't say SFB after every sentence. Being here is like a bad game of Simon Says.
I'm not sure I recall asking you anything.
But Have a nice day.
Post by: FireSoul on July 21, 2003, 02:39:29 pm
Quote:
Hey, do they EAW mission and such still work with the new patch or do they need to be changed??
They should work fine. Most of the stock missions are from pre-patch themselves. (Monster mission was fixed for a victory-level related bug, but I bet it could be copied onto an earlier version and be used normally)
Post by: FireSoul on July 22, 2003, 07:34:41 pm
OP+ 3.0 work progresses. Go check out the tugs that EmeraldEdge has been putting together (some for me):
http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB11&Number=131264&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1
-- Luc
Post by: Jwest on July 23, 2003, 05:25:40 pm
It's fun, but sick . . .
Post by: FireSoul on July 23, 2003, 05:53:13 pm
Quote:
Firesoul - having just started playing again after a considerable hiatus, I'd like to say that the KR7X (X-Stormbird, basically) is just plain wrong. I'm flying it, and it's fun as heck, but it is still just wrong. Gorn firing arcs, Romulan heavy Weapon, Federation shielding and Klingon Manueverabilty. with X-inside . . .
It's fun, but sick . . .
I didn't invent it.
.. the thing is, it's not overboard, since soon enough later, the Taldren "X2" ships come into play and will blow these away.
Also, the KR7X's BPV is what.. 280? .. it's heavier than a DNH.
-- Luc
Post by: Jwest on July 28, 2003, 07:01:10 pm
Quote:Quote:
Firesoul - having just started playing again after a considerable hiatus, I'd like to say that the KR7X (X-Stormbird, basically) is just plain wrong. I'm flying it, and it's fun as heck, but it is still just wrong. Gorn firing arcs, Romulan heavy Weapon, Federation shielding and Klingon Manueverabilty. with X-inside . . .
It's fun, but sick . . .
I didn't invent it.
.. the thing is, it's not overboard, since soon enough later, the Taldren "X2" ships come into play and will blow these away.
Also, the KR7X's BPV is what.. 280? .. it's heavier than a DNH.
-- Luc
Thus far, actually no, they don't. The K7X stands quite handily against an X-2 providing you remember that you don't want to go directly head to head. Even the XCB bomardment cruiser only outguns the K7X by 30 BPV or so.
Not that I'm complaining mind you.
Post by: FireSoul on July 30, 2003, 02:03:10 am
I revamped the main site into a more manageable webpage. This is actually going to be useful to anyone who have questions. After all, the pages act like they're a big FAQ (there's an increadible ammount of documentation there for a shiplist project).
http://klingon.stasis.ca/OP_plusrefit/
Post by: FireSoul on July 30, 2003, 08:40:45 am
Post by: dderidex on August 01, 2003, 04:23:29 pm
If that's the version that starts breaking out some more hull types, I will most definately be moving over from my own custom shiplist to this one.