Post by: Atrahasis on October 11, 2003, 11:22:55 pm
Having these arcs implemented would solve a lot of philopshical problems and we would finally be able to implement true-to-life specs for Federation ships, for those of us who like to fiddle with the shiplists. For example, a TMP-era Enterprise-class starship has 12 saucer phasers: 4 port, 4 fwd, 4 starboard. This is easily verified by visual inspection of the actual studio model. However, the problem is this: the side phasers, if they are assigned the FLL and FRR arcs like they usually are, can fire directly fwd, which means all 12 saucer phasers can fire directly fwd, which makes the ship hideously strong. Also, there are an additional 4 phasers under the secondary hull that if assigned a 360 arc can also fire fwd, and so you have a total of 16 Phaser-I's or Phaser-X's (depending on what kind of specs you use) able to fire directly fwd. This in a nutshell unbalances the game, and so speccing a true TMP Fed becomes problematic, because for some TMP Fed ship designs, even Frigates such as the Knox and Daran have those 12 saucer phasers. However, if we have the L and the R arcs, then those side phasers can no longer fire directly fwd, and for ships that have 12 saucer phasers, only 4 of them can fire directly fwd, which preserves the balance more. You would also be able to properly spec the Miranda as well, which should have only the roll-bar mounted Heavy Phasers and the 4 fwd saucer phasers able to fire directly fwd, (along with the fwd torps), but with the present arcs if you give it its true-to-life 12 saucer phasers all 12 of them can fire directly fwd.....which makes it atrociously strong.
So how about it? Can we get the L and R arcs in an upcoming patch for OP? truth to tell, this is the one factor that has discouraged me from making a complete TMP true-to-life mod package for the game.
Post by: ActiveX on October 11, 2003, 11:25:56 pm
Post by: EmeraldEdge on October 12, 2003, 02:41:12 am
Post by: Captain Ron on October 12, 2003, 02:54:09 am
As for the arcs in SFC 3 those if I remember right can be edited.
Post by: ActiveX on October 12, 2003, 03:19:50 am
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on October 12, 2003, 07:48:08 am
I'd love to see Atrahasis' TMP project come to life!
KF
Post by: atheorhaven on October 12, 2003, 01:46:02 pm
Post by: jimmi7769 on October 12, 2003, 02:51:37 pm
what exactly doesn't work about the Left and right arcs?? Are you wanting the L+R arcs?? as in shoot out both sides of the ship but not front or back?? I think the L+R arcs were used in SFC on maybe 2 ships and they were both fire support ships intended to orbit a stationary target and pound it with broadsides.
And who's to say that just because there are 4 ports there that there are more than 2 actual phaser units?? Maybe there are just to ports for each one to allow for a broader field of fire. Also, who says the side phasers couldn't fire forwad as well. What if the ship angled a bit on it's Z axis nose down a bitthey'd easily be able to access the front arc as well. Don't restrict yourself to much by saying they never did it in the shows or movies. They didn't do a lot of things on the shows, like taking a crap. But I'm guessing thats something they can do as well Canon or not.
As for no ship like the Enterprise class not having 16 phasers in SFB, I guess no one remembers the original CCX from Expansion #1 YIKES!!!
Post by: FireSoul on October 12, 2003, 03:10:08 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 12, 2003, 04:43:03 pm
Post by: Grim Reaper on October 13, 2003, 08:53:59 am
Post by: JayMoles on October 13, 2003, 04:09:46 pm
Thanks Atra!!
Post by: Atrahasis on October 13, 2003, 05:41:35 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 13, 2003, 05:44:41 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on October 13, 2003, 05:56:38 pm
...not that I wouldn't mind seeing some firing arc tweaks. Yeah, I'd love to see it.
But I wouldn't hold my breathe.
I have, however, been proven wrong in these things before. For instance, I NEVER thought cloak would be fixed to the state it has been. So I suppose it COULD happen. Can't hurt to ask, I guess, so long as we make it clear that this is above-and-beyond-the-call of duty type stuff.
Man, I love this game!
-TF
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on October 13, 2003, 06:11:09 pm
adam out
Post by: Dogmatix! on October 14, 2003, 10:24:31 am
Post by: Atrahasis on October 14, 2003, 11:21:42 pm
Post by: Rod O'neal on October 14, 2003, 11:45:47 pm
As was stated earlier though, this would no doubt be WAY "above and beyond" anything that we'd have a right to expect from Taldren. It would be nice though.
Post by: Atrahasis on October 14, 2003, 11:45:47 pm
Post by: Captain KoraH on October 15, 2003, 01:31:34 pm
0_360_Arc,
0_60_Arc,
60_120_Arc,
120_180_Arc,
180_240_Arc,
240_300_Arc,
300_360_Arc,
30_90_Arc,
90_150_Arc,
150_210_Arc,
210_270_Arc,
270_330_Arc,
330_30_Arc,
345_15_Arc,
165_195_Arc,
0_120_Arc, //FRR
120_240_Arc, //RA
240_360_Arc, //FLL
60_180_Arc, //RRR
180_300_Arc, //LLR
300_60_Arc, //FA
0_90_Arc,
90_180_Arc,
180_270_Arc,
270_360_Arc,
0_180_Arc, //RS
180_360_Arc, //LS
270_90_Arc, //FH
90_270_Arc, //RH
240_120_Arc, //FX
60_300_Arc, //RX
330_150_Arc, //RP
210_30_Arc, //LP
300_120_Arc, //FAR
240_60_Arc, //FAL
270_120_Arc, //FHR
240_90_Arc, //FHL
0_240_Arc, //RWX
120_360_Arc, //LWX
60_240_Arc, //RAR
120_300_Arc, //RAL
Post by: I_Mudd on October 15, 2003, 01:55:29 pm
I_Mudd.
Post by: ActiveX on October 15, 2003, 03:03:04 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 15, 2003, 05:51:33 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 16, 2003, 08:56:26 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 18, 2003, 08:30:20 am
If TMP Fed ships can have 12 phasers, as they should, on the saucer hull, then that would reduce the need for having ADD's on TMP Fed ships. In fact, having 12 phasers would be so much better than having ADD's which can shoot at only 1 target at a time and eventually run out of ammo. With 12 phasers, a Fed ship can shoot down incomings and still have shots left over to strike at the real targets.
Which brings up another point: Don't ADD's make fighters and carriers not as fun to play? Automatic fire from ADD's at relatively long range sort of takes the fun out of using your fighters and carrier against an enemy.
Whereas if a Fed ship just has a lot of phasers, it becomes more fun for the Fed as well as the enemy. For the Fed, he now has enough real firepower to take out a lot of those fighters, but in order to do that he'd have to get pretty close to them. For the enemy carrier, at least the fighters are tying up the Fed's firepower because there aren't any ADD's to rely on.
Not that all races should get rid off ADD's, but TMP Feds can definitely do without them if they have enough phasers....this is speaking strictly in terms of modified specs and shiplists of course. The L and R arcs would allow TMP Fed ships to have 12 phasers and yet not unbalance the game all out of proportion.
Post by: WillWeasel on November 18, 2003, 12:02:25 pm
( this is an answer to the question in the topic)Check here and yer wish is granted http://forums.taldren.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=215239&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on November 18, 2003, 02:52:13 pm
adam out
Post by: Reven on November 25, 2003, 01:34:16 am
[Edit] By this I mean allow N1_N2 arcs where N1 is any angle and N2 is any angle. If you assume that N2 is always > N1 (ie: clockwise), then it is trivial programming. If the arc "graphics" aren't already dynamically generated, it's a waste of storage space. The routine to draw it would take far less space than storing all the arc graphics. Then you don't have people bugging for new arcs - you can make whatever ones you want. The astonishing thing to me is that no one thought to do this before.
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on November 25, 2003, 10:52:11 pm
adam out
Post by: Sethan on November 26, 2003, 12:40:40 pm
Quote:
I don't understand why on earth they didn't include arbitrary arcs and be done with it. It would have been trivial, programming-wise to do.
Could have been done, but the programmers may not have thought of it at the time. Also, several of the SFB arcs that were included in OP could not be made using that method.
Post by: Atrahasis on October 11, 2003, 11:22:55 pm
Having these arcs implemented would solve a lot of philopshical problems and we would finally be able to implement true-to-life specs for Federation ships, for those of us who like to fiddle with the shiplists. For example, a TMP-era Enterprise-class starship has 12 saucer phasers: 4 port, 4 fwd, 4 starboard. This is easily verified by visual inspection of the actual studio model. However, the problem is this: the side phasers, if they are assigned the FLL and FRR arcs like they usually are, can fire directly fwd, which means all 12 saucer phasers can fire directly fwd, which makes the ship hideously strong. Also, there are an additional 4 phasers under the secondary hull that if assigned a 360 arc can also fire fwd, and so you have a total of 16 Phaser-I's or Phaser-X's (depending on what kind of specs you use) able to fire directly fwd. This in a nutshell unbalances the game, and so speccing a true TMP Fed becomes problematic, because for some TMP Fed ship designs, even Frigates such as the Knox and Daran have those 12 saucer phasers. However, if we have the L and the R arcs, then those side phasers can no longer fire directly fwd, and for ships that have 12 saucer phasers, only 4 of them can fire directly fwd, which preserves the balance more. You would also be able to properly spec the Miranda as well, which should have only the roll-bar mounted Heavy Phasers and the 4 fwd saucer phasers able to fire directly fwd, (along with the fwd torps), but with the present arcs if you give it its true-to-life 12 saucer phasers all 12 of them can fire directly fwd.....which makes it atrociously strong.
So how about it? Can we get the L and R arcs in an upcoming patch for OP? truth to tell, this is the one factor that has discouraged me from making a complete TMP true-to-life mod package for the game.
Post by: ActiveX on October 11, 2003, 11:25:56 pm
Post by: EmeraldEdge on October 12, 2003, 02:41:12 am
Post by: Captain Ron on October 12, 2003, 02:54:09 am
As for the arcs in SFC 3 those if I remember right can be edited.
Post by: ActiveX on October 12, 2003, 03:19:50 am
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on October 12, 2003, 07:48:08 am
I'd love to see Atrahasis' TMP project come to life!
KF
Post by: atheorhaven on October 12, 2003, 01:46:02 pm
Post by: jimmi7769 on October 12, 2003, 02:51:37 pm
what exactly doesn't work about the Left and right arcs?? Are you wanting the L+R arcs?? as in shoot out both sides of the ship but not front or back?? I think the L+R arcs were used in SFC on maybe 2 ships and they were both fire support ships intended to orbit a stationary target and pound it with broadsides.
And who's to say that just because there are 4 ports there that there are more than 2 actual phaser units?? Maybe there are just to ports for each one to allow for a broader field of fire. Also, who says the side phasers couldn't fire forwad as well. What if the ship angled a bit on it's Z axis nose down a bitthey'd easily be able to access the front arc as well. Don't restrict yourself to much by saying they never did it in the shows or movies. They didn't do a lot of things on the shows, like taking a crap. But I'm guessing thats something they can do as well Canon or not.
As for no ship like the Enterprise class not having 16 phasers in SFB, I guess no one remembers the original CCX from Expansion #1 YIKES!!!
Post by: FireSoul on October 12, 2003, 03:10:08 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 12, 2003, 04:43:03 pm
Post by: Grim Reaper on October 13, 2003, 08:53:59 am
Post by: JayMoles on October 13, 2003, 04:09:46 pm
Thanks Atra!!
Post by: Atrahasis on October 13, 2003, 05:41:35 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 13, 2003, 05:44:41 pm
Post by: Tumulorum Fossor on October 13, 2003, 05:56:38 pm
...not that I wouldn't mind seeing some firing arc tweaks. Yeah, I'd love to see it.
But I wouldn't hold my breathe.
I have, however, been proven wrong in these things before. For instance, I NEVER thought cloak would be fixed to the state it has been. So I suppose it COULD happen. Can't hurt to ask, I guess, so long as we make it clear that this is above-and-beyond-the-call of duty type stuff.
Man, I love this game!
-TF
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on October 13, 2003, 06:11:09 pm
adam out
Post by: Dogmatix! on October 14, 2003, 10:24:31 am
Post by: Atrahasis on October 14, 2003, 11:21:42 pm
Post by: Rod O'neal on October 14, 2003, 11:45:47 pm
As was stated earlier though, this would no doubt be WAY "above and beyond" anything that we'd have a right to expect from Taldren. It would be nice though.
Post by: Atrahasis on October 14, 2003, 11:45:47 pm
Post by: Captain KoraH on October 15, 2003, 01:31:34 pm
0_360_Arc,
0_60_Arc,
60_120_Arc,
120_180_Arc,
180_240_Arc,
240_300_Arc,
300_360_Arc,
30_90_Arc,
90_150_Arc,
150_210_Arc,
210_270_Arc,
270_330_Arc,
330_30_Arc,
345_15_Arc,
165_195_Arc,
0_120_Arc, //FRR
120_240_Arc, //RA
240_360_Arc, //FLL
60_180_Arc, //RRR
180_300_Arc, //LLR
300_60_Arc, //FA
0_90_Arc,
90_180_Arc,
180_270_Arc,
270_360_Arc,
0_180_Arc, //RS
180_360_Arc, //LS
270_90_Arc, //FH
90_270_Arc, //RH
240_120_Arc, //FX
60_300_Arc, //RX
330_150_Arc, //RP
210_30_Arc, //LP
300_120_Arc, //FAR
240_60_Arc, //FAL
270_120_Arc, //FHR
240_90_Arc, //FHL
0_240_Arc, //RWX
120_360_Arc, //LWX
60_240_Arc, //RAR
120_300_Arc, //RAL
Post by: I_Mudd on October 15, 2003, 01:55:29 pm
I_Mudd.
Post by: ActiveX on October 15, 2003, 03:03:04 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 15, 2003, 05:51:33 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 16, 2003, 08:56:26 pm
Post by: Atrahasis on October 18, 2003, 08:30:20 am
If TMP Fed ships can have 12 phasers, as they should, on the saucer hull, then that would reduce the need for having ADD's on TMP Fed ships. In fact, having 12 phasers would be so much better than having ADD's which can shoot at only 1 target at a time and eventually run out of ammo. With 12 phasers, a Fed ship can shoot down incomings and still have shots left over to strike at the real targets.
Which brings up another point: Don't ADD's make fighters and carriers not as fun to play? Automatic fire from ADD's at relatively long range sort of takes the fun out of using your fighters and carrier against an enemy.
Whereas if a Fed ship just has a lot of phasers, it becomes more fun for the Fed as well as the enemy. For the Fed, he now has enough real firepower to take out a lot of those fighters, but in order to do that he'd have to get pretty close to them. For the enemy carrier, at least the fighters are tying up the Fed's firepower because there aren't any ADD's to rely on.
Not that all races should get rid off ADD's, but TMP Feds can definitely do without them if they have enough phasers....this is speaking strictly in terms of modified specs and shiplists of course. The L and R arcs would allow TMP Fed ships to have 12 phasers and yet not unbalance the game all out of proportion.
Post by: WillWeasel on November 18, 2003, 12:02:25 pm
( this is an answer to the question in the topic)Check here and yer wish is granted http://forums.taldren.com/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Number=215239&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on November 18, 2003, 02:52:13 pm
adam out
Post by: Reven on November 25, 2003, 01:34:16 am
[Edit] By this I mean allow N1_N2 arcs where N1 is any angle and N2 is any angle. If you assume that N2 is always > N1 (ie: clockwise), then it is trivial programming. If the arc "graphics" aren't already dynamically generated, it's a waste of storage space. The routine to draw it would take far less space than storing all the arc graphics. Then you don't have people bugging for new arcs - you can make whatever ones you want. The astonishing thing to me is that no one thought to do this before.
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on November 25, 2003, 10:52:11 pm
adam out
Post by: Sethan on November 26, 2003, 12:40:40 pm
Quote:
I don't understand why on earth they didn't include arbitrary arcs and be done with it. It would have been trivial, programming-wise to do.
Could have been done, but the programmers may not have thought of it at the time. Also, several of the SFB arcs that were included in OP could not be made using that method.