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Taldrenites => General Starfleet Command Forum => Topic started by: ragamer on February 14, 2003, 08:34:13 am

Title: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: ragamer on February 14, 2003, 08:34:13 am
Seems like B9 could be a great tittle... But I wonder if Taldren could have enough ppl to maintain SFC3 while
developing B9.

I'm worried because looking at the 1.01 patch README, I missed an IMPORTANT bug to correct... The RANDOM SHIP
EXPLOSION and if Taldren now turns into a COMPLETELY NEW PROJECT (compared to SFC3 that was more like an upgrade
project from SFC2) that they are planning to release in fall 2003... Maybe their manpower will not be enough to
keep SFC3 patches appearing when needed.

Even more... With this project around, the chances of a MUCH needed expansion (at least 2 more playable races) for
SFC3 could be drastically reduced... Unless Activision turns to another developer (which will have undesirable effects
on product quality).

What do you think?  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: BuckStrider on February 14, 2003, 08:38:32 am
I think there is MUCH more money in Console games

I can see why this game was kinda "rushed" out
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Subspace on February 14, 2003, 09:03:04 am
like i said  3  months ago   Taldren   bent us over on SFC3  ,,,   I play almost everyday anyway cause i like ST ,,, but i got to say again bent over,, cough (raped us) cough ,,, (hack long waiting on patch )  cough  hack though up !!!!!


Great Game though    

   
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Demandred on February 14, 2003, 02:48:57 pm
Taldren were probably working on Black 9 before they even started work on SFC3. Screenshots were shown a long time ago in the SETI thread.  As for the Hand of Bethke, that's been around since at least EAW!
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Alidar Jarok on February 14, 2003, 03:07:08 pm
Quote:

Seems like B9 could be a great tittle... But I wonder if Taldren could have enough ppl to maintain SFC3 while
developing B9.

I'm worried because looking at the 1.01 patch README, I missed an IMPORTANT bug to correct... The RANDOM SHIP
EXPLOSION and if Taldren now turns into a COMPLETELY NEW PROJECT (compared to SFC3 that was more like an upgrade
project from SFC2) that they are planning to release in fall 2003... Maybe their manpower will not be enough to
keep SFC3 patches appearing when needed.



That bug will most likely not be fixed.  Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug, and its been around forever.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Ex Malterra on February 14, 2003, 03:25:57 pm
Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Toasty0 on February 14, 2003, 04:04:08 pm
Everyone has had it happen...including a lot of the beta testers. The problem is that when we try to reproduce it we have been unable to do so in any repeatable manner.

Theories abound--like the Kennedy assaination--but none have panned out to be the cause. Otoh, from what I gather this patch seems not to suffer from the AI getting depressed at their lot in life and self-destructing. Let us hope that once a larger pool of players start to pound on this patch that remains a fact of play.

Best,
Jerry  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Admiral T'Pang on February 14, 2003, 04:34:49 pm
You know, I think that exploding ship this is a plot device.  You know ST is full of alien's and pocket universes that cause stuff you just don't know about.  Or it could be the future MIB keeping the lid on something... you just never know.  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Strafer on February 14, 2003, 04:37:58 pm
I survived a Hand of Bethke once, but was soooo damaged I made
the Enterprise from the "The Wrath Of Khan" mission actually look enticing...
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Dragon93 on February 14, 2003, 06:12:08 pm
Quote:

Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.  



It's not that they can't get it to happen. It's that they can't reproduce it while running in the debugger with debug support compiled into the program. These are two entirely different things and very important to the issue. If a bug cannot be reproduced in debugging mode, it comes down to guesses as to what is happening internally to cause the bug.

As somebody who develops software for a living (among other things) I can tell you that this is an extremely difficult type of bug to find and fix.  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Dragon93 on February 14, 2003, 06:14:52 pm
As for impact on the SFC franchise, I don't think it is going to be a huge problem. Black 9 has been in development for a long time now and I believe it was being worked on at some level even during the development of SFC3.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Aldaron on February 14, 2003, 11:21:30 pm
Quote:

Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.  



Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but I've had it happen only once or twice in SFC2, never in SFC3 and that is after 2 complete campaigns.
Title: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: ragamer on February 14, 2003, 08:34:13 am
Seems like B9 could be a great tittle... But I wonder if Taldren could have enough ppl to maintain SFC3 while
developing B9.

I'm worried because looking at the 1.01 patch README, I missed an IMPORTANT bug to correct... The RANDOM SHIP
EXPLOSION and if Taldren now turns into a COMPLETELY NEW PROJECT (compared to SFC3 that was more like an upgrade
project from SFC2) that they are planning to release in fall 2003... Maybe their manpower will not be enough to
keep SFC3 patches appearing when needed.

Even more... With this project around, the chances of a MUCH needed expansion (at least 2 more playable races) for
SFC3 could be drastically reduced... Unless Activision turns to another developer (which will have undesirable effects
on product quality).

What do you think?  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: BuckStrider on February 14, 2003, 08:38:32 am
I think there is MUCH more money in Console games

I can see why this game was kinda "rushed" out
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Subspace on February 14, 2003, 09:03:04 am
like i said  3  months ago   Taldren   bent us over on SFC3  ,,,   I play almost everyday anyway cause i like ST ,,, but i got to say again bent over,, cough (raped us) cough ,,, (hack long waiting on patch )  cough  hack though up !!!!!


Great Game though    

   
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Demandred on February 14, 2003, 02:48:57 pm
Taldren were probably working on Black 9 before they even started work on SFC3. Screenshots were shown a long time ago in the SETI thread.  As for the Hand of Bethke, that's been around since at least EAW!
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Alidar Jarok on February 14, 2003, 03:07:08 pm
Quote:

Seems like B9 could be a great tittle... But I wonder if Taldren could have enough ppl to maintain SFC3 while
developing B9.

I'm worried because looking at the 1.01 patch README, I missed an IMPORTANT bug to correct... The RANDOM SHIP
EXPLOSION and if Taldren now turns into a COMPLETELY NEW PROJECT (compared to SFC3 that was more like an upgrade
project from SFC2) that they are planning to release in fall 2003... Maybe their manpower will not be enough to
keep SFC3 patches appearing when needed.



That bug will most likely not be fixed.  Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug, and its been around forever.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Ex Malterra on February 14, 2003, 03:25:57 pm
Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Toasty0 on February 14, 2003, 04:04:08 pm
Everyone has had it happen...including a lot of the beta testers. The problem is that when we try to reproduce it we have been unable to do so in any repeatable manner.

Theories abound--like the Kennedy assaination--but none have panned out to be the cause. Otoh, from what I gather this patch seems not to suffer from the AI getting depressed at their lot in life and self-destructing. Let us hope that once a larger pool of players start to pound on this patch that remains a fact of play.

Best,
Jerry  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Admiral T'Pang on February 14, 2003, 04:34:49 pm
You know, I think that exploding ship this is a plot device.  You know ST is full of alien's and pocket universes that cause stuff you just don't know about.  Or it could be the future MIB keeping the lid on something... you just never know.  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Strafer on February 14, 2003, 04:37:58 pm
I survived a Hand of Bethke once, but was soooo damaged I made
the Enterprise from the "The Wrath Of Khan" mission actually look enticing...
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Dragon93 on February 14, 2003, 06:12:08 pm
Quote:

Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.  



It's not that they can't get it to happen. It's that they can't reproduce it while running in the debugger with debug support compiled into the program. These are two entirely different things and very important to the issue. If a bug cannot be reproduced in debugging mode, it comes down to guesses as to what is happening internally to cause the bug.

As somebody who develops software for a living (among other things) I can tell you that this is an extremely difficult type of bug to find and fix.  
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Dragon93 on February 14, 2003, 06:14:52 pm
As for impact on the SFC franchise, I don't think it is going to be a huge problem. Black 9 has been in development for a long time now and I believe it was being worked on at some level even during the development of SFC3.
Title: Re: B9 impact on SFC3
Post by: Aldaron on February 14, 2003, 11:21:30 pm
Quote:

Quote:

Taldren has not been able to reproduce that bug



i dunno if i buy that. seems like everyone else has it happen with no effort at all, and they can't make it happen? oh well, i certainly can't fix it.  



Maybe I'm the exception to the rule but I've had it happen only once or twice in SFC2, never in SFC3 and that is after 2 complete campaigns.