Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 02:04:30 am
.. but now I'm at a crossroads, and I want to know if and what I should work on something else next.
Before you mention it, the OP+ is finished unless someone finds problems with it. It's at around 1140+ additional ships, and is ready for release when the next SFC:OP Patch is out. As a tester, I can't tell you much more about it except that there are things in the patch for which I needed to adjust the shiplist for. It's not fully compatible with current SFC:OP 2525.
Ok.. the ideas I have been having:
.. I have source code that works *ONLY* in SFC:OP. I even have a method to figure out if the code is being compiled for SFC:OP or SFC:EAW during compile time, so the same script's sourcecode could be used for both, but with enhanced features in OP.
Stuff that SFC:OP can do that EAW can't, via the API:
1- there's an era-detection call. "mGetEra()".. I have actually made a wicked BattleFest+ script which uses my code (proof of concept) and makes proper era-based matches. (Imagine, playing in Early era, with just early-era ships as priority.)
2- OP can reset fighters on AI-controlled ships. There's a "mSetFighters" call. I've used this in the CoopAce. It's a bit involved, but bear with me.
Between the 2 abilities above, I could make wicked improvements to many many scripts, dynaverse or not. .. use your imagination for a moment..
.. AI ships are from the proper era.. .. they actually have appropirate fighterloads from the appropriate era... Enticing?
.. so I think I should start a poll:
Let me know.
-- Luc
Post by: Cleaven on February 16, 2003, 02:17:19 am
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 02:20:14 am
.. *CAN* those be fixed from the missions' side? .. if not I can't..
.. but if so, maybe there's something I could do there.
May I have *MORE* information on the Neutral Coop issue? I know very little about it.
-- Luc
Post by: FatherTed on February 16, 2003, 06:43:17 am
Quote:
uhm..
.. *CAN* those be fixed from the missions' side? .. if not I can't..
.. but if so, maybe there's something I could do there.
May I have *MORE* information on the Neutral Coop issue? I know very little about it.
-- Luc
Example: Fred and Ted the Feds can run coop in their own territory and enemy territory, and the mission results will affect the DV of the hex. But Fred and Ted can not do that in neutral hexes, since the mission will not affect the DV. And that makes Fred and Ted the Feds see red.
Post by: Bernard Guignard on February 16, 2003, 07:14:32 am
I think that you did a fantastic job and personally what I'd like to see is taking more sfb scenarios and turning them into single and multi-player missions and campagins and adding new missions to the campaigns. I seem to remember a sfb scenario where yourship is in space dock undergoing repairs when long range scanners pick up enemy ships or a ship heading your way. You have to take your ship out of spacedock while systems are being repaired and get it ready for combat. How about adding in some more monsters like the space dragon and Juggernaut and sunsnake to give monster scenarios more flavour and have the campign choose those.
What ever you choose to do I'll back you because I'm enjoying what your doing.
Post by: Cpt. Chaos on February 16, 2003, 09:58:27 am
Well, as a Hydran OP single-player, anything you can do to improve fighter ops sounds superb!
Chaos
Post by: Primus2003 on February 16, 2003, 10:41:03 am
Post by: IndyShark on February 16, 2003, 10:45:19 am
I'd vote for the D2 bug with coop play or anthing that adds more ships, monsters, or missions.
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 03:34:14 pm
Keep this thread alive long enough for me to have a good idea of what people want.
-- Luc
Post by: Qob'nuH on February 16, 2003, 10:23:18 pm
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 10:46:21 pm
.. you have to re-invent the wheel, hence why a lot of people are relunctant to attempt doing the work (me included)
...
-- Luc
FireSoul
Post by: Cleaven on February 16, 2003, 11:17:25 pm
Quote:
Hi Firesoul
I think that you did a fantastic job and personally what I'd like to see is taking more sfb scenarios and turning them into single and multi-player missions and campagins and adding new missions to the campaigns. I seem to remember a sfb scenario where yourship is in space dock undergoing repairs when long range scanners pick up enemy ships or a ship heading your way. You have to take your ship out of spacedock while systems are being repaired and get it ready for combat. How about adding in some more monsters like the space dragon and Juggernaut and sunsnake to give monster scenarios more flavour and have the campign choose those.
What ever you choose to do I'll back you because I'm enjoying what your doing.
If the neutral co-op problem is a bit much, and it may well be, the the above idea is good fun too.
Post by: DeepThought on February 16, 2003, 11:22:26 pm
One of things about SFC and SFC2:EAW was the mission editor, a companion to ShipEdit by HeavensEagle, if memory servers. I'd give my eye teeth to have a mission editor for OP!
--DeepThought
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 11:46:37 pm
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on February 17, 2003, 01:32:40 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 17, 2003, 08:40:07 pm
There are two, perhaps three or even more, sources to examine / pursue for an SFC OP Mission Editor and assistance in its development: 1) FMSE by Remus & Heaven's Eagle. Their FMSE for EAW simply rocks! They were planning on working on an OP version once a long time ago. 2) An EAW Mission Creator created by the Astonish Company. Randy has already stated that he was willing to share his code to advance the cause for SFC OP. 3) What will Taldren be kind enough to release (assuming they haven't already released all that they can)? Both in regards to draft releases of an FMSE for OP (if any) and issues pertaining to the Dynaverse. The Mission Editor for OP might involve more diplomacy than anything else, just to get going. How much help can you get from these three groups? Can you get help from others, such as Dave (who's done quite a bit with scripting) to assist and provide input?
OP Dynaverse fixes/improvements would be extremely welcome. Can those who are working on the code now be allowed to let you access more of it, especially since you might have some time, and clearly have the skills?
Personally, I'd like to have the D2 operate so that all 16 races (8 major races and 8 pirate races) operated on a singel level. Then, a program that could let use easily modify assumptions as to alliances, race strength, etc. Why? Because Modders of the game could then do so much more with it. And the closer we move in that direction the closer we can get to GAW, or a diverse representation of a full fledged TNG universe, or whatever.
BTW, thanks for all of your efforts. OP is simply the version of SFC OP that offers the most potential. I hope that members of the community, combined with the wonderful help of Taldren and other powers that be, can help make its potential be realized. Many of us do sincerely appreciate all of your efforts on OP.
Kid Carrson
Post by: 3dot14 on February 17, 2003, 08:47:59 pm
Quote:http://www.amusing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10&start=15
well..
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...
-- Luc
Here is the relevant link.
You may not get FSME, since I think HE and remus are both out of the scene.
But you can at least get Commodore/Admiral's source codes.
Put me down for an OP mission editor request.
Post by: FireSoul on February 17, 2003, 08:56:38 pm
-- Luc
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 18, 2003, 10:02:35 am
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 02:58:34 pm
have you considered replacing a pirate race or two with the tholians and/or the andros?
thnaks for all the hard work.
Micah
Post by: FireSoul on February 18, 2003, 03:33:07 pm
.. but since a lot of the important things these races need can't be reproduced..
ie:
disdev: ships can't be moved around like that, even in scripting. (AFAIK)
pinwheel: there's no docking implemented.
web: .. uhm.. through scripting I _guess_ it's possible to make ships go to a complete stop. But how would you prevent some weaponry from passing through the web like it's supposed to?
PA Panels: .. I _guess_ it could be scripted that a certain amount of damage has to be absorbed before internal damage can occur. But it would be directionless, and I don't think we could simulate a 'cascade'.
.. these important details about those races .. .. it's an excellent idea, but I think i'll have to pass.
-- Luc
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 04:08:32 pm
I Just downloaded your shiplist and it's awesome!!!!
You have breathed new life into one of my favorite games. I absolutely love what you've done with the Hydrans! The battle tugs are great - I've always wanted a phG boat with a side of fusions. I never new how cool SFB was!
Thanks for all your hard work, and keep it up. I recommend this modification to any OP player who's tired of the same old same old - it's like having a brand new game!
Micah
p.s. What's the story behind battle tugs and tugs in general anyway? Are they supposed to look like normal heavy cruisers or are they more specialty ships? I am uninformed on SFB.....
Post by: FireSoul on February 18, 2003, 05:15:40 pm
I can do that.
The tugs themselves are very basic ships: usually lightly armed cruisers. However, they're equipped to "tow" pods or pallets.. and sometimes these pods/pallets aren't for cargo. In SFB, the tugs dock and undock the pallet to their hull.
For the purposes of SFC (since docking is not implemented), I've entered many various tug/pods combinations.
The weight of the pod(s) increase the movement cost of the ship. Check the movement cost and # of warps carefully!
Obviously, the SFC UI is incorrect as far as the ship's configuration. Pods are not shown since I have no such graphic to show. However, its weaponry is correct, and that's good enough for me.
F-TUG
Very much like a normal NCL, the F-TUG carries pods on its underbelly.
A more appropriate model/skin from the SFC2 War Refit Spacedock:
F-LTT
"Light Tactical Transport". It's a smaller cheaper tug. LTTs are usually based on WarDestroyers and may only carry 1 pod/pallet.
K-TGT/TGA
The K-TGT is a "Transport Tug". It's lightly armed compared to the K-TGA. Although a single (cargo-only) pod may be carried, pods must be carried in pairs. These tugs are based on D6s, but are enhanced in some ways.
Pods in pairs are tucked under the wings and thus have access to front firing arc.
K-D5H: It's in the LTT class. It's a modified D5 which can tow a pod under it.
R-KRT: Purchased and modified klingon tug. Romulans never built 'tugs'. (they can't cloak well?) .. instead, they built ships with internal cargo capability. ie: R-SPH. R-PE, etc..
G-TUG: Can only carry a single pod, BEHIND the ship. Weapons don't have access to forward arcs. Pods are usually in the shape of an egg (chuckle). The Gorn BattleTug with refit (G-BT+) has 3 rear-facing plasma-Ss.
G-HDT (I think) is the LTT version of the Gorn tug, and is similar in towing pods behind it.
H-TUG:
Modified heavy cruiser. Can only tow a single pod, under the ship. (thus have access to forward arcs)
H-LTT: See LTTs.
etc..
etc..
Many types of pods are available to all tugs. All depend on year of availability.
ie: Battle Pod, CVA/PFT pod, Light Battle Pod, CVL Pod, Commando, Cargo..
.. I've not bothered entering a few pods.. as it would overwhelm the shiplist with a lot of junk. Maybe I'll change my mind?
Need more information? Each race's tugs are different. Pirates have no tugs.
My personal favorites:
- K-BTK : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 6? droneracks, loaded with weapons, it's like it's an X-Ship.
- L-BTF : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 4 ESGs.. many many phaser-2s... and 2 PFs.
- F-CVTH*.. : *24* Fed fighters, at the cost of a slow max speed of around 15. This is really a F-TUG with 2 pods in tow, the CVA pod and then the CVL pod behind it. The pods have ph-Gs, but each pod blocks arcs from the other. That's ok.. that's still 4 ph-Gs FX, and 2 ph-Gs RX.
* (I since found that it's really a CVTC and will be called as such in the next version of the shiplist)
-- Luc
PS: All tugs are real SFB ships. I didn't invent these.
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 09:03:47 pm
Micah
Post by: Scipio_66 on February 18, 2003, 09:48:44 pm
There was a suggestion by .......... someone (my memory slips) that reversing all the empires/pirates in the shiplist would fix the cartel/emprie interaction problem on the D2 map. That is, empires would affect each others hexes normally and would not need an allied cartel to raise the DV of their own hexes. This edit should be a simple task, and if I were to work on anything for OP this would be my first step.
If the upcoming patch fixes the bug that prevents pirates from seeing their own DV, this shiplist edit would make the OP dynaverse very playable.
Now if you wanted to make an editor that would create (very basic) dynaverse missions, I might have to sell you my firstborn.
-S'Cipio
Post by: Holocat on February 18, 2003, 11:06:36 pm
I've been goofing around with shipedit with SFC and SFC OP, and it seems you can have kustom graphics for ships including models.
mabey you should get together with all those older SFC modelers and come out with new class lines, like making battle tug and pocket/early dreads models for the eight mighty empires, and put another step forward in creating the SFB game you so dearly desire. They've already got a bunch of those tugs out, for various ST modling styles (mostly TOS), but I think more TMP low polys need to be made. with your knowledge of C++ and the OP API, you could probably even make it into a enourmous self installing exe...
Yar har har and a can of cat treats,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 12:04:09 am
I was just frustrated enough to give myself time and get familiar with the mission scripting API, the bugs, etc. I've toyed with the coopace script for a long time before anything else.
.. btw..
.. there are tractorable asteroids in the shiplist. Any ideas for a story based on this? .. maybe it could be turned into a mission:
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 01:17:44 am
As for a mission based on them, I suppose I could get creative; What do you want, exactly? How complicated can it be?
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 02:46:26 am
.. and collision could be simulated.
ie:
if (distance == 0)
collision;
I guess what I am wondering is .. think we could create a scenario with this? .. maybe a D2 mission?
What would be the premise? The story?
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 04:29:02 am
A better answer would be "I don't know enough about scripting limitations to tell you what I would or wouldn't propose."
To be succinct, it's a rock. It may mean nothing, but as a proliferate writer, you can do alot as long as you remember that a rock is also a plot device.
I also know enough about C++ so that if you want to talk shop, we can do that too.
Why, I ask, do you want a story about tractorable asteroids? I mean, there are asteroids, nebulas, planets, and even *gasp* starships in this game, the starship being the rough equivlant to your protagonist/antagonist schtik.
In conclusion, if you wish ideas about stories evolving around tractorable asteroids, I can write tons. What I don't understand, is the true nature of the question; Are you uncertian as to what tractorable asteroids can be scripted to do? If that's the case, you know FAR, faaaaaaar better than I do, having the API under your belt. If your asking if asteroids can become an important part of story telling, my answer is, 'Of course!' A good writer can make a compelling story out of rocks, or even oranges in nessisary.
The prolific writer who isn't writing a whole lot lately,
Holocat.
Edit: If you WANT me to write a mission involving tractorable asteroids, I can do that; Tell me about API limitations (what one can and can't do in SFC OP) and i'll write as many mission proposals as you wish; A campaign if you desire; If got the time and the wild imagination. =)
2nd edit: On top of that, I still say you should rag on some modelers for new, low poly class lines for all the nifty ships in your shiplist.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on February 19, 2003, 04:55:30 am
Other than that, there are things like:
1 - Asteroid has mineral/something valuable that is needed by the empire and you must extract it from the asteroid (with enemies trying to do the same and stop you) This could be the basis for a medication needed by a planet or something.
2 - The asteroid is carrying a virus and must be destroyed before it can come into a star system and potentially unleash even a small portion of what is ill on it.
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 05:28:20 am
The asteroid (given enough hitpoints) is found initally by the federation during a routine mineral sweep. You determine two things:
1. it's toxic to most known life, because,
2. It's a space monster egg.
Instantly you get this:
1. The feds want to study it.
2. The klinks think Weapon of Mass Destruction.
3. The romulans get suspicious. (gee, big suprise there)
4. The hydrans (as I recall a sect of them worships monsters) want to put it in a pen and make it a big fuzzy pet.
Let's say you then have to move this 'egg' to someplace because it's its 'natural habitat'
1. Obviously, the feds being the flowery, ecosystem minded idealists they are, will assign a ship that would be much MUCH more useful on the front to move the egg over.
2. Because it's toxic, it presents a danger to wherever you move it to AND move it through. move it near an ally for increased plot effect.
--et. al, you can play this tom clancy meets gene rodenberry game for as many missions as you like.
I bet the API won't let me do this,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 07:47:47 am
.. I was thinking along the lines of:
"A densely populated is in our way. Take this rock and let it do its thing when it meets that planet's surface.
Oh, you have to bring it there yourself, and defend yourself while attempts to your life are being made.
Don't worry, we'll send some escorts with your to occupy them."
.. but you guys obviously have other ideas too.
I don't know if I'll *ever* end up writing this.. but I wanted to get the creative juices flowing in case someone else does.
.. as a plot device one can actually manipulate, there just doesn't seem to be enough missions with asteroids yet.
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 08:06:21 am
To the storytellers, regardless of where or how their story is told,
Holocat.
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 19, 2003, 10:00:41 am
Post by: Maxillius on February 19, 2003, 10:44:52 am
, so my idea of just laying them around as a terrain weapon wouldn't work. Can anyone tell me if my memory on that has failed?
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 03:18:39 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 20, 2003, 12:32:23 am
there's no end to the fun with tractorable asteroids.
All's well at the Asteroid Coral,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 22, 2003, 01:23:27 am
.. review and fix single-player campaign it is. It also happens to be what I'm currently doing, already.
Currently doing: Mirak Campaign.
Done: Hydran (and others) vs ISC.
- fixed "uni_7battlegrave".
Done: Klingon vs Mirak.
- fixed: "uni_1desecration"
- fixed: "uni_7Gates"
- fixed: "uni_9Edge"
See http://klingon.stasis.ca/EAW_missions/ for the updated missions, individually, the fixes I did, and the ZIP current package available to download.
-- Luc
FireSoul
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 23, 2003, 03:10:07 pm
One mission that could be very useful and beneficial to me,and hopefully others, is the following:
Take the existing SFC OP Multi-player Free for All Skirmish Mission and add one very important element: a TIME OF ENTRY INTO BATTLE component. Allow for each of the (up to 6) groups of ships to have a time at which they come into battle. Say player A and Player B enter at Time = 0:00. Then Player C (an ally of A) enters at Time = 20:00. Then Player D (an ally of B) enters at Time = 30:00.
Adding a time element would allow for quite a lot of wonderful new twists for SFC OP missions.
Thanks for the consideration.
KC
Post by: FireSoul on February 23, 2003, 03:38:06 pm
Quote:
Take the existing SFC OP Multi-player Free for All Skirmish Mission and add one very important element: a TIME OF ENTRY INTO BATTLE component. Allow for each of the (up to 6) groups of ships to have a time at which they come into battle. Say player A and Player B enter at Time = 0:00. Then Player C (an ally of A) enters at Time = 20:00. Then Player D (an ally of B) enters at Time = 30:00.
An excellent idea. I'll have to see if it's possible to do this with real human players, while preserving their choice of ships.
-- Luc
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on February 23, 2003, 10:19:33 pm
You know, I use a mix of ships from Klingon Academy conversions to SFC to Ships of The Starfleet to FASA Trek (TMP) and a few custom ships thrown in...
Your new OP Spec file is awesome! Thank you! I do also feel that this is a renewed game for me. (off to get more models)
I for one, would like to see your take on stats on a few ships as I don't want to ruin your fine spec file.
I have the FASA Fed Fenlon Monitor [and theFASA Fed Corvette [fighter](both by Heaven's Eagle) I plan to use as the Fed monitor
Finally, a good use for P81's FASA Klingon K-23 (Cleeve's TOS Gray one) as a tug!
I would like your input on the stats for the following ships as I think your specfile is well done/balanced and I don't wish to mangle it:
Ships of The Starfleet: Akula Perimeter action ships
FASA: Klingon D10, Klingon L24, Romulan Winged Defender, Romulan White-Wind, Federation Chandley Class (Light/Heavy Cruiser not a frigate!)
General information: http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/mua_sitemap.html
Klingon Academy: Tholians (MINUS the Webs I know; I understand SFB has rules to substitute Tholian weapons for using non-Tholian ones like Hellbores instead of webs), The Emperor Class, the Suvwl' Qeh
General information: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~klingonacademy/forum/show.php?pg=ShipInfoIndex
Regarding Andromedans, something I REALLY want to see some basic stats on; can't you just up the HULL, armor, shields and superstructure to "simulate" the power overload? I would say that maybe appraoch them as if they, well are a long way from home and have few resources to repair/upgrade their ships in a fashion similar (not identical) to the Tholians. Anduril's Andromedan pack has a base station made from three smaller ship disks "cannibalized?" Regarding satellite ships, just put some of them in the fighterlist; shuttles magically appear all the time and this isn't much different than having the satellite ships displaced into battle.
Qa Pla!
KF
Post by: FireSoul on February 24, 2003, 02:00:09 am
.. you see, I entered *everything* from official SFB material I could find that matched what Taldren has done so far. Additionally, I created some variants using rules that exist within SFB where I thought such variants would be needed:
ie: R-KE now has a R-KEF variant, with 2 PFs.
.. I just dunno what to tell you..
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on February 24, 2003, 03:29:38 am
-- Luc
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 24, 2003, 10:46:57 am
Quote:
Uhm.. I guess you're asking for a bit I can't really answer.
.. you see, I entered *everything* from official SFB material I could find that matched what Taldren has done so far. Additionally, I created some variants using rules that exist within SFB where I thought such variants would be needed:
ie: R-KE now has a R-KEF variant, with 2 PFs.
.. I just dunno what to tell you..
-- Luc
Ah...I think what he is asking....as I would also ask....is that you go further than just matching Taldren and use your skills of "taldrenizing" to add other subrace ships to the ship list or do another semi SFB list built of OP refit....
I certainly wouldnt mind the combining of the cartels to replace their slots with other unrepresented SFB races
Again...Welcome to daddyhood.....you wont have time for crap for a while...but put this idea on the back burner please...
Speaking of babies.....if you allready have kids..you know this.... if not...here are some good tips....
Your biggest problem (I hope) will be sleep deprivation....it may not seem like much ...but after a few weeks of constanly waking up and trying to work or even just take care of baby ....nerves will run high....and lack of serious rest will take its toll......
Rule #1.....someone should be sleeping while baby sleeps...either you or moma should take a nap whenever the baby is sleeping...this will ensure that someone is allways fresh ....if you work days....split up the night and give momma the Eves off and make her take a nap even if the baby is up....if she has to get up for a few hours during the night ..she will have the energy and temperment to give better care to the baby....you will get some sleep at night to better function at work or while driving..etc...etc...
Item #1....baby swing.....get a good one that is comfortable and takes apart at least enough to move in a car trunk....
Item#2...pack and play...with net....Graco makes a good one that folds up...we still use the hell out of both items when daughter is 1yr....
Rule#2...avoid daycare if at all possible....baby is much more happier without separation anxiety and less apt get ill often....if you both must work....try to find a competent and trusted home sitter or relative...
( we made the choice that momma would stay home...and only works part time when the kids are in school...right now,*due to layoff*...I'm Mr Mom........having a single income will surely delay any financial goals.....but it surley pays in the long run with heathier, more well behaved, and happier kids)
Rule#3...never be afraid to ask for help.....having kids is a joyous but stressful time....putting your baby first often conficts with work or other obligations and athough babies like to go places ..we tried to avoid excessive carting around of the kids....
Dont be afraid to ask any of us...Lots of us are dads and if we dont an answer...one of the old ladies will for sure.....
One thing for sure....babies are very receptive of the emotional atmosphere...being stress free of outside influence aids alot in just dealing with the stress of taking care of baby..........having fun with baby is more important than stressing about the bills....
Sorry about highjacking the thread.....
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 24, 2003, 07:31:37 pm
BTW, get the baby swing that is battery operated. Don't get a mechanical wind up one.
Sleep deprivation is a BIG issue! Get sleep!
Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!! My guess is that you'll never look at the world in the same way again!
KC
Post by: Kid Carrson on March 05, 2003, 10:09:23 pm
KC
Post by: Carrie on March 05, 2003, 11:38:11 pm
Or is there more to it?
If someone has a 'corrected' listing of things like this, pleas tell me!!
If not, I reiterate my earlier question from elsethread.
About making a one cartel map, and disabling other ones. I know I'll need a map editor to make a one cartel map, so...
Post by: FireSoul on March 06, 2003, 04:27:24 am
.. my next project will be OP D2 related, to try and see if any of the OP D2 bugs can be fixed this way.
I need to find myself the list of D2 bugs again.
-- Luv
Post by: Kid Carrson on March 06, 2003, 07:18:44 am
KC
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 02:04:30 am
.. but now I'm at a crossroads, and I want to know if and what I should work on something else next.
Before you mention it, the OP+ is finished unless someone finds problems with it. It's at around 1140+ additional ships, and is ready for release when the next SFC:OP Patch is out. As a tester, I can't tell you much more about it except that there are things in the patch for which I needed to adjust the shiplist for. It's not fully compatible with current SFC:OP 2525.
Ok.. the ideas I have been having:
.. I have source code that works *ONLY* in SFC:OP. I even have a method to figure out if the code is being compiled for SFC:OP or SFC:EAW during compile time, so the same script's sourcecode could be used for both, but with enhanced features in OP.
Stuff that SFC:OP can do that EAW can't, via the API:
1- there's an era-detection call. "mGetEra()".. I have actually made a wicked BattleFest+ script which uses my code (proof of concept) and makes proper era-based matches. (Imagine, playing in Early era, with just early-era ships as priority.)
2- OP can reset fighters on AI-controlled ships. There's a "mSetFighters" call. I've used this in the CoopAce. It's a bit involved, but bear with me.
Between the 2 abilities above, I could make wicked improvements to many many scripts, dynaverse or not. .. use your imagination for a moment..
.. AI ships are from the proper era.. .. they actually have appropirate fighterloads from the appropriate era... Enticing?
.. so I think I should start a poll:
Let me know.
-- Luc
Post by: Cleaven on February 16, 2003, 02:17:19 am
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 02:20:14 am
.. *CAN* those be fixed from the missions' side? .. if not I can't..
.. but if so, maybe there's something I could do there.
May I have *MORE* information on the Neutral Coop issue? I know very little about it.
-- Luc
Post by: FatherTed on February 16, 2003, 06:43:17 am
Quote:
uhm..
.. *CAN* those be fixed from the missions' side? .. if not I can't..
.. but if so, maybe there's something I could do there.
May I have *MORE* information on the Neutral Coop issue? I know very little about it.
-- Luc
Example: Fred and Ted the Feds can run coop in their own territory and enemy territory, and the mission results will affect the DV of the hex. But Fred and Ted can not do that in neutral hexes, since the mission will not affect the DV. And that makes Fred and Ted the Feds see red.
Post by: Bernard Guignard on February 16, 2003, 07:14:32 am
I think that you did a fantastic job and personally what I'd like to see is taking more sfb scenarios and turning them into single and multi-player missions and campagins and adding new missions to the campaigns. I seem to remember a sfb scenario where yourship is in space dock undergoing repairs when long range scanners pick up enemy ships or a ship heading your way. You have to take your ship out of spacedock while systems are being repaired and get it ready for combat. How about adding in some more monsters like the space dragon and Juggernaut and sunsnake to give monster scenarios more flavour and have the campign choose those.
What ever you choose to do I'll back you because I'm enjoying what your doing.
Post by: Cpt. Chaos on February 16, 2003, 09:58:27 am
Well, as a Hydran OP single-player, anything you can do to improve fighter ops sounds superb!
Chaos
Post by: Primus2003 on February 16, 2003, 10:41:03 am
Post by: IndyShark on February 16, 2003, 10:45:19 am
I'd vote for the D2 bug with coop play or anthing that adds more ships, monsters, or missions.
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 03:34:14 pm
Keep this thread alive long enough for me to have a good idea of what people want.
-- Luc
Post by: Qob'nuH on February 16, 2003, 10:23:18 pm
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 10:46:21 pm
.. you have to re-invent the wheel, hence why a lot of people are relunctant to attempt doing the work (me included)
...
-- Luc
FireSoul
Post by: Cleaven on February 16, 2003, 11:17:25 pm
Quote:
Hi Firesoul
I think that you did a fantastic job and personally what I'd like to see is taking more sfb scenarios and turning them into single and multi-player missions and campagins and adding new missions to the campaigns. I seem to remember a sfb scenario where yourship is in space dock undergoing repairs when long range scanners pick up enemy ships or a ship heading your way. You have to take your ship out of spacedock while systems are being repaired and get it ready for combat. How about adding in some more monsters like the space dragon and Juggernaut and sunsnake to give monster scenarios more flavour and have the campign choose those.
What ever you choose to do I'll back you because I'm enjoying what your doing.
If the neutral co-op problem is a bit much, and it may well be, the the above idea is good fun too.
Post by: DeepThought on February 16, 2003, 11:22:26 pm
One of things about SFC and SFC2:EAW was the mission editor, a companion to ShipEdit by HeavensEagle, if memory servers. I'd give my eye teeth to have a mission editor for OP!
--DeepThought
Post by: FireSoul on February 16, 2003, 11:46:37 pm
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on February 17, 2003, 01:32:40 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 17, 2003, 08:40:07 pm
There are two, perhaps three or even more, sources to examine / pursue for an SFC OP Mission Editor and assistance in its development: 1) FMSE by Remus & Heaven's Eagle. Their FMSE for EAW simply rocks! They were planning on working on an OP version once a long time ago. 2) An EAW Mission Creator created by the Astonish Company. Randy has already stated that he was willing to share his code to advance the cause for SFC OP. 3) What will Taldren be kind enough to release (assuming they haven't already released all that they can)? Both in regards to draft releases of an FMSE for OP (if any) and issues pertaining to the Dynaverse. The Mission Editor for OP might involve more diplomacy than anything else, just to get going. How much help can you get from these three groups? Can you get help from others, such as Dave (who's done quite a bit with scripting) to assist and provide input?
OP Dynaverse fixes/improvements would be extremely welcome. Can those who are working on the code now be allowed to let you access more of it, especially since you might have some time, and clearly have the skills?
Personally, I'd like to have the D2 operate so that all 16 races (8 major races and 8 pirate races) operated on a singel level. Then, a program that could let use easily modify assumptions as to alliances, race strength, etc. Why? Because Modders of the game could then do so much more with it. And the closer we move in that direction the closer we can get to GAW, or a diverse representation of a full fledged TNG universe, or whatever.
BTW, thanks for all of your efforts. OP is simply the version of SFC OP that offers the most potential. I hope that members of the community, combined with the wonderful help of Taldren and other powers that be, can help make its potential be realized. Many of us do sincerely appreciate all of your efforts on OP.
Kid Carrson
Post by: 3dot14 on February 17, 2003, 08:47:59 pm
Quote:http://www.amusing.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=10&start=15
well..
.. get me the sources to FMSE and then maybe...
-- Luc
Here is the relevant link.
You may not get FSME, since I think HE and remus are both out of the scene.
But you can at least get Commodore/Admiral's source codes.
Put me down for an OP mission editor request.
Post by: FireSoul on February 17, 2003, 08:56:38 pm
-- Luc
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 18, 2003, 10:02:35 am
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 02:58:34 pm
have you considered replacing a pirate race or two with the tholians and/or the andros?
thnaks for all the hard work.
Micah
Post by: FireSoul on February 18, 2003, 03:33:07 pm
.. but since a lot of the important things these races need can't be reproduced..
ie:
disdev: ships can't be moved around like that, even in scripting. (AFAIK)
pinwheel: there's no docking implemented.
web: .. uhm.. through scripting I _guess_ it's possible to make ships go to a complete stop. But how would you prevent some weaponry from passing through the web like it's supposed to?
PA Panels: .. I _guess_ it could be scripted that a certain amount of damage has to be absorbed before internal damage can occur. But it would be directionless, and I don't think we could simulate a 'cascade'.
.. these important details about those races .. .. it's an excellent idea, but I think i'll have to pass.
-- Luc
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 04:08:32 pm
I Just downloaded your shiplist and it's awesome!!!!
You have breathed new life into one of my favorite games. I absolutely love what you've done with the Hydrans! The battle tugs are great - I've always wanted a phG boat with a side of fusions. I never new how cool SFB was!
Thanks for all your hard work, and keep it up. I recommend this modification to any OP player who's tired of the same old same old - it's like having a brand new game!
Micah
p.s. What's the story behind battle tugs and tugs in general anyway? Are they supposed to look like normal heavy cruisers or are they more specialty ships? I am uninformed on SFB.....
Post by: FireSoul on February 18, 2003, 05:15:40 pm
I can do that.
The tugs themselves are very basic ships: usually lightly armed cruisers. However, they're equipped to "tow" pods or pallets.. and sometimes these pods/pallets aren't for cargo. In SFB, the tugs dock and undock the pallet to their hull.
For the purposes of SFC (since docking is not implemented), I've entered many various tug/pods combinations.
The weight of the pod(s) increase the movement cost of the ship. Check the movement cost and # of warps carefully!
Obviously, the SFC UI is incorrect as far as the ship's configuration. Pods are not shown since I have no such graphic to show. However, its weaponry is correct, and that's good enough for me.
F-TUG
Very much like a normal NCL, the F-TUG carries pods on its underbelly.
A more appropriate model/skin from the SFC2 War Refit Spacedock:
F-LTT
"Light Tactical Transport". It's a smaller cheaper tug. LTTs are usually based on WarDestroyers and may only carry 1 pod/pallet.
K-TGT/TGA
The K-TGT is a "Transport Tug". It's lightly armed compared to the K-TGA. Although a single (cargo-only) pod may be carried, pods must be carried in pairs. These tugs are based on D6s, but are enhanced in some ways.
Pods in pairs are tucked under the wings and thus have access to front firing arc.
K-D5H: It's in the LTT class. It's a modified D5 which can tow a pod under it.
R-KRT: Purchased and modified klingon tug. Romulans never built 'tugs'. (they can't cloak well?) .. instead, they built ships with internal cargo capability. ie: R-SPH. R-PE, etc..
G-TUG: Can only carry a single pod, BEHIND the ship. Weapons don't have access to forward arcs. Pods are usually in the shape of an egg (chuckle). The Gorn BattleTug with refit (G-BT+) has 3 rear-facing plasma-Ss.
G-HDT (I think) is the LTT version of the Gorn tug, and is similar in towing pods behind it.
H-TUG:
Modified heavy cruiser. Can only tow a single pod, under the ship. (thus have access to forward arcs)
H-LTT: See LTTs.
etc..
etc..
Many types of pods are available to all tugs. All depend on year of availability.
ie: Battle Pod, CVA/PFT pod, Light Battle Pod, CVL Pod, Commando, Cargo..
.. I've not bothered entering a few pods.. as it would overwhelm the shiplist with a lot of junk. Maybe I'll change my mind?
Need more information? Each race's tugs are different. Pirates have no tugs.
My personal favorites:
- K-BTK : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 6? droneracks, loaded with weapons, it's like it's an X-Ship.
- L-BTF : 8 disruptors, movement cost of 1, 4 ESGs.. many many phaser-2s... and 2 PFs.
- F-CVTH*.. : *24* Fed fighters, at the cost of a slow max speed of around 15. This is really a F-TUG with 2 pods in tow, the CVA pod and then the CVL pod behind it. The pods have ph-Gs, but each pod blocks arcs from the other. That's ok.. that's still 4 ph-Gs FX, and 2 ph-Gs RX.
* (I since found that it's really a CVTC and will be called as such in the next version of the shiplist)
-- Luc
PS: All tugs are real SFB ships. I didn't invent these.
Post by: mdutr0 on February 18, 2003, 09:03:47 pm
Micah
Post by: Scipio_66 on February 18, 2003, 09:48:44 pm
There was a suggestion by .......... someone (my memory slips) that reversing all the empires/pirates in the shiplist would fix the cartel/emprie interaction problem on the D2 map. That is, empires would affect each others hexes normally and would not need an allied cartel to raise the DV of their own hexes. This edit should be a simple task, and if I were to work on anything for OP this would be my first step.
If the upcoming patch fixes the bug that prevents pirates from seeing their own DV, this shiplist edit would make the OP dynaverse very playable.
Now if you wanted to make an editor that would create (very basic) dynaverse missions, I might have to sell you my firstborn.
-S'Cipio
Post by: Holocat on February 18, 2003, 11:06:36 pm
I've been goofing around with shipedit with SFC and SFC OP, and it seems you can have kustom graphics for ships including models.
mabey you should get together with all those older SFC modelers and come out with new class lines, like making battle tug and pocket/early dreads models for the eight mighty empires, and put another step forward in creating the SFB game you so dearly desire. They've already got a bunch of those tugs out, for various ST modling styles (mostly TOS), but I think more TMP low polys need to be made. with your knowledge of C++ and the OP API, you could probably even make it into a enourmous self installing exe...
Yar har har and a can of cat treats,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 12:04:09 am
I was just frustrated enough to give myself time and get familiar with the mission scripting API, the bugs, etc. I've toyed with the coopace script for a long time before anything else.
.. btw..
.. there are tractorable asteroids in the shiplist. Any ideas for a story based on this? .. maybe it could be turned into a mission:
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 01:17:44 am
As for a mission based on them, I suppose I could get creative; What do you want, exactly? How complicated can it be?
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 02:46:26 am
.. and collision could be simulated.
ie:
if (distance == 0)
collision;
I guess what I am wondering is .. think we could create a scenario with this? .. maybe a D2 mission?
What would be the premise? The story?
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 04:29:02 am
A better answer would be "I don't know enough about scripting limitations to tell you what I would or wouldn't propose."
To be succinct, it's a rock. It may mean nothing, but as a proliferate writer, you can do alot as long as you remember that a rock is also a plot device.
I also know enough about C++ so that if you want to talk shop, we can do that too.
Why, I ask, do you want a story about tractorable asteroids? I mean, there are asteroids, nebulas, planets, and even *gasp* starships in this game, the starship being the rough equivlant to your protagonist/antagonist schtik.
In conclusion, if you wish ideas about stories evolving around tractorable asteroids, I can write tons. What I don't understand, is the true nature of the question; Are you uncertian as to what tractorable asteroids can be scripted to do? If that's the case, you know FAR, faaaaaaar better than I do, having the API under your belt. If your asking if asteroids can become an important part of story telling, my answer is, 'Of course!' A good writer can make a compelling story out of rocks, or even oranges in nessisary.
The prolific writer who isn't writing a whole lot lately,
Holocat.
Edit: If you WANT me to write a mission involving tractorable asteroids, I can do that; Tell me about API limitations (what one can and can't do in SFC OP) and i'll write as many mission proposals as you wish; A campaign if you desire; If got the time and the wild imagination. =)
2nd edit: On top of that, I still say you should rag on some modelers for new, low poly class lines for all the nifty ships in your shiplist.
Post by: EmeraldEdge on February 19, 2003, 04:55:30 am
Other than that, there are things like:
1 - Asteroid has mineral/something valuable that is needed by the empire and you must extract it from the asteroid (with enemies trying to do the same and stop you) This could be the basis for a medication needed by a planet or something.
2 - The asteroid is carrying a virus and must be destroyed before it can come into a star system and potentially unleash even a small portion of what is ill on it.
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 05:28:20 am
The asteroid (given enough hitpoints) is found initally by the federation during a routine mineral sweep. You determine two things:
1. it's toxic to most known life, because,
2. It's a space monster egg.
Instantly you get this:
1. The feds want to study it.
2. The klinks think Weapon of Mass Destruction.
3. The romulans get suspicious. (gee, big suprise there)
4. The hydrans (as I recall a sect of them worships monsters) want to put it in a pen and make it a big fuzzy pet.
Let's say you then have to move this 'egg' to someplace because it's its 'natural habitat'
1. Obviously, the feds being the flowery, ecosystem minded idealists they are, will assign a ship that would be much MUCH more useful on the front to move the egg over.
2. Because it's toxic, it presents a danger to wherever you move it to AND move it through. move it near an ally for increased plot effect.
--et. al, you can play this tom clancy meets gene rodenberry game for as many missions as you like.
I bet the API won't let me do this,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 07:47:47 am
.. I was thinking along the lines of:
"A densely populated is in our way. Take this rock and let it do its thing when it meets that planet's surface.
Oh, you have to bring it there yourself, and defend yourself while attempts to your life are being made.
Don't worry, we'll send some escorts with your to occupy them."
.. but you guys obviously have other ideas too.
I don't know if I'll *ever* end up writing this.. but I wanted to get the creative juices flowing in case someone else does.
.. as a plot device one can actually manipulate, there just doesn't seem to be enough missions with asteroids yet.
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 08:06:21 am
To the storytellers, regardless of where or how their story is told,
Holocat.
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 19, 2003, 10:00:41 am
Post by: Maxillius on February 19, 2003, 10:44:52 am
, so my idea of just laying them around as a terrain weapon wouldn't work. Can anyone tell me if my memory on that has failed?
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 03:18:39 pm
-- Luc
Post by: Holocat on February 20, 2003, 12:32:23 am
there's no end to the fun with tractorable asteroids.
All's well at the Asteroid Coral,
Holocat.
Post by: FireSoul on February 22, 2003, 01:23:27 am
.. review and fix single-player campaign it is. It also happens to be what I'm currently doing, already.
Currently doing: Mirak Campaign.
Done: Hydran (and others) vs ISC.
- fixed "uni_7battlegrave".
Done: Klingon vs Mirak.
- fixed: "uni_1desecration"
- fixed: "uni_7Gates"
- fixed: "uni_9Edge"
See http://klingon.stasis.ca/EAW_missions/ for the updated missions, individually, the fixes I did, and the ZIP current package available to download.
-- Luc
FireSoul
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 23, 2003, 03:10:07 pm
One mission that could be very useful and beneficial to me,and hopefully others, is the following:
Take the existing SFC OP Multi-player Free for All Skirmish Mission and add one very important element: a TIME OF ENTRY INTO BATTLE component. Allow for each of the (up to 6) groups of ships to have a time at which they come into battle. Say player A and Player B enter at Time = 0:00. Then Player C (an ally of A) enters at Time = 20:00. Then Player D (an ally of B) enters at Time = 30:00.
Adding a time element would allow for quite a lot of wonderful new twists for SFC OP missions.
Thanks for the consideration.
KC
Post by: FireSoul on February 23, 2003, 03:38:06 pm
Quote:
Take the existing SFC OP Multi-player Free for All Skirmish Mission and add one very important element: a TIME OF ENTRY INTO BATTLE component. Allow for each of the (up to 6) groups of ships to have a time at which they come into battle. Say player A and Player B enter at Time = 0:00. Then Player C (an ally of A) enters at Time = 20:00. Then Player D (an ally of B) enters at Time = 30:00.
An excellent idea. I'll have to see if it's possible to do this with real human players, while preserving their choice of ships.
-- Luc
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on February 23, 2003, 10:19:33 pm
You know, I use a mix of ships from Klingon Academy conversions to SFC to Ships of The Starfleet to FASA Trek (TMP) and a few custom ships thrown in...
Your new OP Spec file is awesome! Thank you! I do also feel that this is a renewed game for me. (off to get more models)
I for one, would like to see your take on stats on a few ships as I don't want to ruin your fine spec file.
I have the FASA Fed Fenlon Monitor [and theFASA Fed Corvette [fighter](both by Heaven's Eagle) I plan to use as the Fed monitor
Finally, a good use for P81's FASA Klingon K-23 (Cleeve's TOS Gray one) as a tug!
I would like your input on the stats for the following ships as I think your specfile is well done/balanced and I don't wish to mangle it:
Ships of The Starfleet: Akula Perimeter action ships
FASA: Klingon D10, Klingon L24, Romulan Winged Defender, Romulan White-Wind, Federation Chandley Class (Light/Heavy Cruiser not a frigate!)
General information: http://www.sub-odeon.com/stsstcsmua/mua_sitemap.html
Klingon Academy: Tholians (MINUS the Webs I know; I understand SFB has rules to substitute Tholian weapons for using non-Tholian ones like Hellbores instead of webs), The Emperor Class, the Suvwl' Qeh
General information: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~klingonacademy/forum/show.php?pg=ShipInfoIndex
Regarding Andromedans, something I REALLY want to see some basic stats on; can't you just up the HULL, armor, shields and superstructure to "simulate" the power overload? I would say that maybe appraoch them as if they, well are a long way from home and have few resources to repair/upgrade their ships in a fashion similar (not identical) to the Tholians. Anduril's Andromedan pack has a base station made from three smaller ship disks "cannibalized?" Regarding satellite ships, just put some of them in the fighterlist; shuttles magically appear all the time and this isn't much different than having the satellite ships displaced into battle.
Qa Pla!
KF
Post by: FireSoul on February 24, 2003, 02:00:09 am
.. you see, I entered *everything* from official SFB material I could find that matched what Taldren has done so far. Additionally, I created some variants using rules that exist within SFB where I thought such variants would be needed:
ie: R-KE now has a R-KEF variant, with 2 PFs.
.. I just dunno what to tell you..
-- Luc
Post by: FireSoul on February 24, 2003, 03:29:38 am
-- Luc
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 24, 2003, 10:46:57 am
Quote:
Uhm.. I guess you're asking for a bit I can't really answer.
.. you see, I entered *everything* from official SFB material I could find that matched what Taldren has done so far. Additionally, I created some variants using rules that exist within SFB where I thought such variants would be needed:
ie: R-KE now has a R-KEF variant, with 2 PFs.
.. I just dunno what to tell you..
-- Luc
Ah...I think what he is asking....as I would also ask....is that you go further than just matching Taldren and use your skills of "taldrenizing" to add other subrace ships to the ship list or do another semi SFB list built of OP refit....
I certainly wouldnt mind the combining of the cartels to replace their slots with other unrepresented SFB races
Again...Welcome to daddyhood.....you wont have time for crap for a while...but put this idea on the back burner please...
Speaking of babies.....if you allready have kids..you know this.... if not...here are some good tips....
Your biggest problem (I hope) will be sleep deprivation....it may not seem like much ...but after a few weeks of constanly waking up and trying to work or even just take care of baby ....nerves will run high....and lack of serious rest will take its toll......
Rule #1.....someone should be sleeping while baby sleeps...either you or moma should take a nap whenever the baby is sleeping...this will ensure that someone is allways fresh ....if you work days....split up the night and give momma the Eves off and make her take a nap even if the baby is up....if she has to get up for a few hours during the night ..she will have the energy and temperment to give better care to the baby....you will get some sleep at night to better function at work or while driving..etc...etc...
Item #1....baby swing.....get a good one that is comfortable and takes apart at least enough to move in a car trunk....
Item#2...pack and play...with net....Graco makes a good one that folds up...we still use the hell out of both items when daughter is 1yr....
Rule#2...avoid daycare if at all possible....baby is much more happier without separation anxiety and less apt get ill often....if you both must work....try to find a competent and trusted home sitter or relative...
( we made the choice that momma would stay home...and only works part time when the kids are in school...right now,*due to layoff*...I'm Mr Mom........having a single income will surely delay any financial goals.....but it surley pays in the long run with heathier, more well behaved, and happier kids)
Rule#3...never be afraid to ask for help.....having kids is a joyous but stressful time....putting your baby first often conficts with work or other obligations and athough babies like to go places ..we tried to avoid excessive carting around of the kids....
Dont be afraid to ask any of us...Lots of us are dads and if we dont an answer...one of the old ladies will for sure.....
One thing for sure....babies are very receptive of the emotional atmosphere...being stress free of outside influence aids alot in just dealing with the stress of taking care of baby..........having fun with baby is more important than stressing about the bills....
Sorry about highjacking the thread.....
Post by: Kid Carrson on February 24, 2003, 07:31:37 pm
BTW, get the baby swing that is battery operated. Don't get a mechanical wind up one.
Sleep deprivation is a BIG issue! Get sleep!
Enjoy, enjoy, enjoy!! My guess is that you'll never look at the world in the same way again!
KC
Post by: Kid Carrson on March 05, 2003, 10:09:23 pm
KC
Post by: Carrie on March 05, 2003, 11:38:11 pm
Or is there more to it?
If someone has a 'corrected' listing of things like this, pleas tell me!!
If not, I reiterate my earlier question from elsethread.
About making a one cartel map, and disabling other ones. I know I'll need a map editor to make a one cartel map, so...
Post by: FireSoul on March 06, 2003, 04:27:24 am
.. my next project will be OP D2 related, to try and see if any of the OP D2 bugs can be fixed this way.
I need to find myself the list of D2 bugs again.
-- Luv
Post by: Kid Carrson on March 06, 2003, 07:18:44 am
KC