Post by: ModelsPlease on March 26, 2004, 03:20:50 pm
Booooooorrrrrrring.So I thought I would start a poll.As of now I have found a few ships claiming to be the Titan so.......in all fairness I say lets vote on it.
Enjoy !!!! and may the best ship win !
-MP
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 26, 2004, 03:39:12 pm
Post by: Kaenyne on March 26, 2004, 03:44:25 pm
I love alternate takes anyway and the more the merrier!
If I vote, it's for which Titan should be modeled next! WickedZombie's and Azel's version is done, so that leaves her out...
The Excelsior B is out there too, I think, albeit with a different namesake,
and same goes to the Prometheus Class there, as a Prometheus of course.
So that leaves two...cast your votes for the next Titan!
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 26, 2004, 03:48:11 pm
Quote:
Bumpin' as per request and just to say that I think anyone who wants to model a ship and call her "Titan" is perfectly fine with me.
Ilove alternate takes anyway and the more the merrier!
If I vote, it's for which Titan should be modeled next! WickedZombie's and Azel's version is done, so that leaves her out...
I agree completely but I didn't want to leave out their amazing work.If I had set the poll without including it I'm sure I would have gotten post asking about why the ship wasn't here.
-MP
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 26, 2004, 03:55:51 pm
Quote:
Bumpin' as per request and just to say that I think anyone who wants to model a ship and call her "Titan" is perfectly fine with me.
I love alternate takes anyway and the more the merrier!
If I vote, it's for which Titan should be modeled next! WickedZombie's and Azel's version is done, so that leaves her out...
The Excelsior B is out there too, I think, albeit with a different namesake,
Not this one
and same goes to the Prometheus Class there, as a Prometheus of course.
Though it look's it.It's not a Prometheus class
So that leaves two...cast your votes for the next Titan!
Actually it leaves 4 sir,only WZ/Azel has been modeled
Post by: InragedSith on March 26, 2004, 04:46:15 pm
Quote:
Hello all ModelsPlease here with a post for all to enjoy.Now recently people here in the Forum have been discussing the Titan.WZ and Azel have one that kicks azz,but,according to the powers that be the Titan is a Sovereign class ship.
Where did B&B or Paramount say that Rikers new ship is Soveriegn?
Quote:
Booooooorrrrrrring.So I thought I would start a poll.As of now I have found a few ships claiming to be the Titan so.......in all fairness I say lets vote on it.
So this is a poll to see what we think Rikers ship should be?
Technically Riker should have been court martialed after the E-D was destroyed but since this is starfleet (the same people who made Janeway an Admiral) Rikers ship could be anything
Post by: DarkScream on March 26, 2004, 05:58:17 pm
Post by: Smiley on March 26, 2004, 06:02:21 pm
Post by: InragedSith on March 26, 2004, 07:17:26 pm
Quote:
Um why should riker have been courtmartialed after the Enterprise D was destroyed?? I was not aware that he did anything wrong....except get his ass kicked.
Did Riker try to change shield modulation?
No he didn't
Did Riker fight back?
Just one phaser shot at the begining and the torp at the end
The GCS out guns the BoP a hand full of torps and a few phaser strikes would have ended the battle quickly and the E-D would survive
Also Riker had or allowed Georidi to return to duty
Geordi has been on an enemy ship for quite a while he may have been brainwashed for all they know
During the battle Riker postioned the Enterprise in such a postition that the warp naccelles and impulse drives were exposed to enemy fire and the main phasers nolonger had the ability to fire on the enemy vessel
Finally the fact that Riker lost the seven year old state of the art Federation flagship to a twenty year old obsolite BoP
Post by: SSCF_LeRoy on March 26, 2004, 07:27:57 pm
Quote:Quote:
Um why should riker have been courtmartialed after the Enterprise D was destroyed?? I was not aware that he did anything wrong....except get his ass kicked.
Did Riker try to change shield modulation?
No he didn't
Did Riker fight back?
Just one phaser shot at the begining and the torp at the end
The GCS out guns the BoP a hand full of torps and a few phaser strikes would have ended the battle quickly and the E-D would survive
Also Riker had or allowed Georidi to return to duty
Geordi has been on an enemy ship for quite a while he may have been brainwashed for all they know
During the battle Riker postioned the Enterprise in such a postition that the warp naccelles and impulse drives were exposed to enemy fire and the main phasers nolonger had the ability to fire on the enemy vessel
Finally the fact that Riker lost the seven year old state of the art Federation flagship to a twenty year old obsolite BoP
OK, new poll:
Post by: Smiley on March 26, 2004, 07:30:53 pm
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 26, 2004, 09:35:52 pm
The main reason is B&B. They wanted the Enterprise-D destroyed somehow, ever since the series finale of TNG. So, make Riker look dumb in command...
Realistically... With his academy experience, battles like the wargame in "Peak Performance" (TNG) when his garbage scow of a Constellation-class Starship called Hathaway nearly totaled the Enterprise-D (They had sustained, in that wargame, damages in the rear-dorsal and rear-ventral areas of the ship, heavily in the stardrive section/secondary hull. The repair time would be 3.6 days), or how about when he captured Locutus and put Data to work on destroying that Borg Cube in "The Best of Both Worlds" (TNG)? How about when he got those Sona ships off his back and engaged Ruafo's ship? And everyone has bad days. Out of all that versus his bad experience created by Rick Berman, I'd happily give him a vessel. He'd pass a court martial! And besides, he wouldn't be easily found guilty of being a bad Starfleet officer and force him to resign, etc. That's arrogance from all of you speaking (no offense). So I'd happily give him the captain's chair of a Starship. And before it was offered to him three or four times before he took command of the Titan! *sigh* Geez. What a way for myself to return to this forum.
As for my choice of what the Titan should be... I voted for the Excelsior-B. But truely I'd have it as another Galaxy or Sovereign-class. Starfleet isn't about a thousand classes of a thousand explorative ships that look cool. If it's a good ship then go with the flow. But the Excelsior-B can be a good option, choosing to renew the class in a way to help bring back the glory of the line of past Excelsior-class Starships (one of the few canonical--or otherwise--TMP starships in existance, rivaled by the Constitution-class refit) as it was a good class of starship, and a good, simple, functional design. It also fits the design lineage of starships around the Sovereign without scrapping slightly-older starships. I'm sure they scrapped some very old TMP-ish ones like the Miranda-class. I don't see how you can make newer and newer classes all the time. What happened to the TNG fleet we see in the 2360s? Like the Niagra-class or the New Orleans-class, etc? The Ambassador and Galaxy-themed ships that were more of the modern fleet...
So for me I chose the most practical answer, the Excelsior-B class. But by beauty... It's a tough for first or second, but WZ/Atolm's Titan is first, then Excelsior-B is second, then the fourth Titan-class is third in my ranking, then the fifth one's my fourth. The Ares would be last.
But I chose to be as logical as possible in my thinking. I dunno how it faltered but I have a gut feeling it did. But it made sense to me!
Chris Johnson
Post by: Magnum357 on March 26, 2004, 11:04:33 pm
I agree with a lot of what ChrisJohnson said. Why does Star Trek always need a thousand different explorer ships all the time, all with radical design differences. Wouldn't that cost a lot of money too keep experimenting with different designs all the time?
I voted for the last one (The Strike Crusier), as it it has a lot fo common Galaxy Class Components/Technology that is reconfigured too fit a role for this vessel. I'm sure that this Strike Cruseir has some heavy firepower and special equipment compared too a Standard Galaxy and would fit well with its border patrol duties near the Neutral Zone or Fed Boarders. But I think I would change the Secondary hull of the pic though. It looks like its just a copy of a Excelcior Secondary.
Post by: DarkScream on March 26, 2004, 11:13:43 pm
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 26, 2004, 11:26:26 pm
What a recruiting slogan " Join the crew of the USS Enterprise,flag ship of the Federation,encounter the Borg.Fear for your very existance,child care available for 0600-1800 Mon-Fri."
Post by: red_green on March 27, 2004, 01:05:02 am
Quote:Quote:
Um why should riker have been courtmartialed after the Enterprise D was destroyed?? I was not aware that he did anything wrong....except get his ass kicked.
Did Riker try to change shield modulation?
No he didn't
Did Riker fight back?
Just one phaser shot at the begining and the torp at the end
The GCS out guns the BoP a hand full of torps and a few phaser strikes would have ended the battle quickly and the E-D would survive
Also Riker had or allowed Georidi to return to duty
Geordi has been on an enemy ship for quite a while he may have been brainwashed for all they know
During the battle Riker postioned the Enterprise in such a postition that the warp naccelles and impulse drives were exposed to enemy fire and the main phasers nolonger had the ability to fire on the enemy vessel
Finally the fact that Riker lost the seven year old state of the art Federation flagship to a twenty year old obsolite BoP
I have never seen this episode. So The Ent_D gets done in by a single uncloaked BOP.
At one time I liked TNG. But I was watching some shows on a marathon and I can't for the life of me figure why I ever liked that show. ST got so big cause it had little competition in SCI-FI. Now there are half a dozen SCI-FI shows that are better.
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 27, 2004, 03:01:49 am
Star Trek: Generations
-MP
Post by: Smiley on March 27, 2004, 07:51:21 am
Quote:
I hate it when Riker gets trashed.
The main reason is B&B. They wanted the Enterprise-D destroyed somehow, ever since the series finale of TNG. So, make Riker look dumb in command...
Realistically... With his academy experience, battles like the wargame in "Peak Performance" (TNG) when his garbage scow of a Constellation-class Starship called Hathaway nearly totaled the Enterprise-D (They had sustained, in that wargame, damages in the rear-dorsal and rear-ventral areas of the ship, heavily in the stardrive section/secondary hull. The repair time would be 3.6 days), or how about when he captured Locutus and put Data to work on destroying that Borg Cube in "The Best of Both Worlds" (TNG)? How about when he got those Sona ships off his back and engaged Ruafo's ship? And everyone has bad days. Out of all that versus his bad experience created by Rick Berman, I'd happily give him a vessel. He'd pass a court martial! And besides, he wouldn't be easily found guilty of being a bad Starfleet officer and force him to resign, etc. That's arrogance from all of you speaking (no offense). So I'd happily give him the captain's chair of a Starship. And before it was offered to him three or four times before he took command of the Titan! *sigh* Geez. What a way for myself to return to this forum.
As for my choice of what the Titan should be... I voted for the Excelsior-B. But truely I'd have it as another Galaxy or Sovereign-class. Starfleet isn't about a thousand classes of a thousand explorative ships that look cool. If it's a good ship then go with the flow. But the Excelsior-B can be a good option, choosing to renew the class in a way to help bring back the glory of the line of past Excelsior-class Starships (one of the few canonical--or otherwise--TMP starships in existance, rivaled by the Constitution-class refit) as it was a good class of starship, and a good, simple, functional design. It also fits the design lineage of starships around the Sovereign without scrapping slightly-older starships. I'm sure they scrapped some very old TMP-ish ones like the Miranda-class. I don't see how you can make newer and newer classes all the time. What happened to the TNG fleet we see in the 2360s? Like the Niagra-class or the New Orleans-class, etc? The Ambassador and Galaxy-themed ships that were more of the modern fleet...
So for me I chose the most practical answer, the Excelsior-B class. But by beauty... It's a tough for first or second, but WZ/Atolm's Titan is first, then Excelsior-B is second, then the fourth Titan-class is third in my ranking, then the fifth one's my fourth. The Ares would be last.
But I chose to be as logical as possible in my thinking. I dunno how it faltered but I have a gut feeling it did. But it made sense to me!
Chris Johnson
Personally I wasn't being too serious about not giving Riker a command, but he probably would have been court martialled though because a ship got destroyed while he was in command of it....or part of it? lol
Just from the way that Picard and Riker talk about the Titan though in Nemesis it sounds a little more special than an old run-of-the-mill Excelsior class (even if it has been upgraded). I'd hope that it was either a Galaxy/Nebula styled class or a Sovereign variant - even an Akira would be nice!
Post by: InterMech on March 27, 2004, 08:42:26 am
I personally think it was a mistake for Star Trek to have Federation ships bigger then the Excelsior. That should have been the size limit. After the set the precedence that size = power it got out of hand. I think they finally wised up when they made Voyager smaller (it is still about the same mass at the Excelsior) and also made the Sovereign smaller (it is still longer though). They need to just keep the Galaxy as the biggest ship and then get back to smaller, more powerful ships like the Defiant.
I know it was nice to have a new ship for the movies, but letting a 7 year old ship get destroyed that was supposed to have a hull life of 100 years should bring up some questions, especially considering how it was destroyed and the fact that it was the Federation's flag ship. I am not real keen on the wastefulness of it.
Post by: Magnum357 on March 27, 2004, 07:14:31 pm
Going back too the Titan discussion, I never thought about heavily converting existing Excelciors too a new design (much like the Constitutions went though) too capitalize on such a well built design. But wouldn't it be easier too just build a whole new ship? I wonder if it would cost more too build a whole new design or just reconstruct an old ship too a new design?
Ya, I suppose this is getting too "Trekkie" but it is fun too speculate.
Post by: Fury_of_a_Seraph on March 27, 2004, 08:30:50 pm
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 28, 2004, 08:16:50 am
Post by: jimkirk on March 28, 2004, 08:30:00 am
W odpowiedzi na:That's Entente class according to www.ditl.org This class was based on Galaxy class Battleship... with three nacelles:)
I agree...I think the largest ship - Colony and Generational ships nonewithstanding - that should be feilded by the Federation is the Galaxy-X
Post by: sandman69247 on March 28, 2004, 11:13:08 am
As for whether Riker should have been given his own command, I say no...because to my mind, he himself didn't feel he was right for command. Every single time he was offered a command he turned it down...that tells me he wouldn't be fit for command. True, he proved himself a capable diplomat, a great tactician and had a good rappaort with the crew, all essential in a Starfleet Captain, but....he was uncomfortable with the move. Rather than giving him a ship, I would have put him in a staff job for the rest of his career.As to why the ships keep getting bigger...human nature. We want the other guy to look at the ship and say, "HOLY CRAP!!!"
And, the number of ship styles can be explained as, they were all designed for specific types of missions. But, it is true that there are way too many classes out there. I mean, look at SW...they've been flying some of those ships for hundreds of years and still kickin azz In some cases it would be too costly to upgrade the existing ships, but the vast majority could be brought up to speed quicker and cheaper than designing a whole new ship.B&B just wanted to try and get rid of more of Genes influence...the E-D was the last Enterprise to be approved by Gene, and B&B want to turn ST into their baby. What they're really doing though is killing it.
Anyway, the WZ/Azel Titan is my vote, and no to Riker getting a command of his own. I mean, who want a Captain with performance anxiety?
Post by: blitzy on March 28, 2004, 01:03:54 pm
Post by: olbuzzard on March 28, 2004, 10:52:24 pm
By the time the "E" came out that protocall had changed. This ship seems to be more business than the family sized "D" modle. Again this is little more the writers for Paramont setting the stage or "keeping up with change". Lets face it change is a big part of theater.
As for too many ships available... Not really. Take a look at the US Navy ... a lot of different ships for many differnet tasks.
Also as far as the maneuverability of a big ship... or her speed .. you should see how maneuverable some of todays big ships are. And as for Speed.... the RL Enterprise can out run most of her escorts if she wanted to. ( Believe it or not !)
There are a lot of things we mihgt use to speculate on ... and there are a lot of good points to consider.
Personally I really dont like the Sovy design as well as the Galaxy in SOME aspects. ( just personal tastes)
As for the Titan.... I kind a agree that she is a new ship all togeather. Her name seems to indicate a large ship with some powerful weapons at her disposal. As for the over all design ... I really dont think it would resemble too much of any thing we have seen so far ( sorry guys .... ) Azels idea come as close as any ... but I think it would be a bit more sleek. Hopefully it will get away form the the "Promethus" look .. or the Voyager either one...
I do like the idea of comming up with a viable "Titan" though !!
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 29, 2004, 02:17:58 am
As for what Old Buzzard said about the real E you should see her at flank speed. I have and man can she haul azz. -MP
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 29, 2004, 06:39:01 am
Quote:
BTW, the new star trek RPg says the Titan was a Prometheus class.
You're right Blitzy sir, 5 ships were based on Prometheus style designs.
I found this on the web about the Titan Class.......
USS Titan
Enjoy
-MP
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 29, 2004, 07:13:29 am
Quote:
I personally like the Excelsior B,logically an upgrade for that ship would be in order after almost 100 years of service. A proven design being equiped with the latest technology is always advantagious.Plus with all the losses to the Borg and the Dominion war I think logically ,an upgrade of all the existing classes would be the first order of business.That and replenishing the number of ships in the fleet. As for the GalaxyClass I think it was stupid to have "The whole Family along for the ride." I'm in the Navy and last time I looked ,there were no kids running around on the flight deck of the real Enterprise.
What a recruiting slogan " Join the crew of the USS Enterprise,flag ship of the Federation,encounter the Borg.Fear for your very existance,child care available for 0600-1800 Mon-Fri."
Well, Gene figured if we had a lack of family around in a 20+ year exlplorative mission where you may not get in contact with the Federation until the end of such a mission--which was originally intended for TNG--Even with the help of a counselor, we'd all still go crazy sometime because of yearning for our families. Just remember, evolution in sensibility and way of thinking differs from ours by three-hundred sixty years. The Enterprise-D is a ship of deep space exploration, more-so than even the original Big E, where she seems to be more like a militaristic vessel than that of the Ent-D. You have to understand what Gene Roddenberry wanted. He wanted to venture away from militarism in Starfleet.
Now, I'm sure later on, families stayed home on Earth while the Galaxy-class Starships become refitted into battleships in the Dominion War, since it's pointless to bring families along into a warzone. But that's intentionally into a known warzone, not an unknown region of space wanted to be explored by the Federation. So pretty much, in the mid-2370s, you got what you wanted.
BTW... Try a funnier joke.
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 29, 2004, 07:27:25 am
Quote:
Well, I chose the WZ/Azel model...can't beat those two. As for whether Riker should have been given his own command, I say no...because to my mind, he himself didn't feel he was right for command. Every single time he was offered a command he turned it down...that tells me he wouldn't be fit for command. True, he proved himself a capable diplomat, a great tactician and had a good rappaort with the crew, all essential in a Starfleet Captain, but....he was uncomfortable with the move. Rather than giving him a ship, I would have put him in a staff job for the rest of his career.
He was uncomfortable with it in the TNG series. Who knows with the TNG movies... Riker loved being on the Ent-D, and enjoyed being on the Ent-E. Now, he grown more comfortable and confident on the idea of having his own command. Well, we may never know Riker's motives, but then whatever happened, he was offered command again and this time he accepted it. But I wouldn't say that's what truely happened. I wouldn't say he really would have command then, mabye sooner, or later. Why am I saying this? Well...
...Now, many of us don't like Akiraprise too much, right? We consider it to be an alternate universe to normal Trek timeline, right? Well, if a model of the NX-01 was in the conference lounge while they were talking about the Rommies and Remans, then it too is an alternate story, right? Data might not have given his life to save the Ent-E at that time, Riker might not have accepted a command... Heck, the Remans might not be a whole species! It could have been a similar homeworld to Romulus and Romulans lived there too! So technically if we continue thinking that Akiraprise is an alternate timeline-ish ship that doesen't belong in our universe, then technically Star Trek: Insurrection was the last Star Trek film to be in the normal Star Trek timeline. Riker's next command could eventually have been the Ent-E herself.
Post by: Kaenyne on March 29, 2004, 03:48:05 pm
She's sooooo cool...
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 29, 2004, 07:02:31 pm
Post by: olbuzzard on March 29, 2004, 07:18:59 pm
Quote:
I just want SOMEBODY to build Titan number four!
She's sooooo cool...
ok .... I 'm game .... Azel .. anybody ? care to swap some "sketches" this week ( pm first if ya like) .. to see what we can come up with ??
If we come up with something .. maybe the guys with the 3-d programs can do the mesh.
just a wild idea !
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 30, 2004, 06:12:53 am
Quote:
She looks like a kitbash of the Excalibur-class, the Excelsior-B-class, and the Prometheus-Class (Nacelles kinda resemble those of the Prometheus, a bit.)
I thought the Narcelles where more Nova-ish on that one.I would love to have the Excelsior B modeled as well,just because it's so damn sweet !
-MP
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 30, 2004, 06:55:29 am
Post by: Fury_of_a_Seraph on March 30, 2004, 07:06:16 am
Then again, it would make sense if it were a Norway~class ship as well - Reason being the Norway (in my mind at least) has always been a diplomatic cruiser - what better ship to go to the romulan space for rebuilding.
Or i will entertain the idea that it is a Sovereign-class...i mean would Riker really give up the Ent-E for a ship that wasnt just like it?
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 30, 2004, 07:21:44 am
I'd rather this ship wasn't a ship that was of pure battle though, it should be more than just a ship of battle like the Prometheus-class or any of her chip-off the block variants.
Or mabye ask yourself this: Why would the Federation refit an Excelsior to have two bulky hull thingies on the secondary hull, plus two big impulse drive systems on the primary hull that would char off the warp engines and some of her struts as well? Well it's kinda off-subject but still, if you know where I'm getting at...
Post by: Fury_of_a_Seraph on March 30, 2004, 07:24:30 am
How about a Varient of the Sovereign, one with a Nebula sensor pod on it
Post by: ChrisJohnson on March 30, 2004, 07:30:58 am
I'm saying there's more reason for Riker, or anyone in his situation in that matter, to accept command of another Starship. Earlier I chose the Excelsior-B because, although technically you can call it a new class, it's designed to replace an old, fading design of ships that actually served damn well good for a century (pardon my french).
But I don't want the Titan to be a ship of battle... Although an Excelsior-B can not live up to her name, it seemed kinda logical. And if the ship has to be big, then mabye a Galaxy-class, or a variant of her, would suffice.
Also, I don't see the point of just kitbashing to the point where you stick sensor pods or rollbars on top of ships, it can't simply just work that way. It also makes a class of Starship like the Sovereign-class less-streamlined.
Post by: Fury_of_a_Seraph on March 30, 2004, 07:32:51 am
Or better yet, the Excelsior-B that LC Amaral put out (can be found at Darkmatrix's Site)
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 30, 2004, 04:29:22 pm
Quote:
I agree...the Excelsior-B would make a good Titan...
Or better yet, the Excelsior-B that LC Amaral put out (can be found at Darkmatrix's Site)
IMHO LC Amaral's B looks more Sovie then Excelsior-ish.But this is a fun debate.Does anyone know the Federations exact ship losses (total) to the Borg and during the Dominion War ?
-MP
Post by: sandman69247 on March 30, 2004, 08:31:58 pm
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 31, 2004, 03:53:16 am
Daystrom Institute
Prior to first contact with the Dominion, Starfleets total production for all major ship classes stood at one hundred ships per year, allowing them to maintain a total fleet of almost 8,000 capital ships3 - a capital ship in this case being defined as any vessel capable of sustained independent operation. With the loss of the USS Odyssey at the end of 2370,4 the Federation began a series of dramatic and highly secret preparations. The president ordered Starfleet to halt all planned retirements and increase ship production to the maximum possible level; by the outbreak of the war three years later Starship production was up to three hundred ships per year and the standing fleet was at 8,726 ships. The onset of the war allowed the president to openly make ship production a top priority, and by the end of the first year of war a further 370 ships had been built. The second and final year of fighting saw 402 further vessels put into service. Production was almost entirely based around the more combat capable vessels, with production of heavily science-biased ships such as the Nova class cut back almost to nothing. Various measures were also taken to increase the combat capability of vessels already in service, resulting in a significant increase in Starfleets war fighting capabilities.
Unfortunately, the Dominion war took a heavy toll on Starfleet,5 far exceeding vessel production. The first three months of war alone cost nearly a thousand capital ships, leading many analysts to claim that the hostilities could not possibly be maintained for more than twenty eight months before it simply ran out of ships. Indeed, this was regarded by many to be an optimistic estimate since Starfleets ability to mount serious opposition to the Dominion would surely fall as its numbers reduced.
While ships losses continued to greatly exceed production throughout the war, those first three months proved to be the low point. The re-taking of Deep Space Nine is hailed as preventing any further Dominion reinforcements arriving via the wormhole, but that operation also led to the first major defeat suffered by a Dominion warfleet.6 The Romulan entry into the war just a few months later complicated matters for the Dominion,7 while the allied offensive into Dominion space shortly afterwards marked a major shift of initiative towards the allies.8
Nevertheless, the loss rate remained above 220 per month for most of the remainder of the two year war. When hostilities ceased Starfleet had lost a total of 5,800 capital ships, nearly 60% of the total operated during the period. Fatalities totalled 1.6 million personnel, not including those lost on starbases or in ground combat. The post-war fleet numbers only 4,116 ships, and although ship production is highly unlikely to remain at its wartime level it is probable that it will continue at a higher than normal rate until the fleet has returned to something approaching normality.
There are many who regard the Dominion war as the greatest disaster ever to befall the Federation. But while it cannot be disputed that the loss of life has been little short of disastrous, the unswerving dedication and self-sacrifice with which Starfleet and its allies faced - and, ultimately, defeated - their foe has gained the admiration of the entire quadrant. Throughout its history the fact that Starfleet not only regards its military role as a relatively minor one but is positively proud of this fact has led many to suggest that it is somehow weak, even soft. This is a criticism that has seldom been heard since the start of the Dominion war, even from the Federations traditional opponents.
With the end of the war Starfleet has already begun shifting its dispositions to a peacetime basis. While it is likely that several of the larger combat fleets will be retained for at least the next year or two as a deterrent to further hostilities, many ships are being transferred back to their more normal roles. The diplomatic mission especially is likely to take up much of Starfleets time over the next few years. During the war the Federation was desperate to make as many alliances as possible in an attempt to gain reinforcements against the Dominion. Such a hurried and haphazard process has already resulted in some severe strains, even leading to one major political scandal within the Federation itself.
Despite the many pressing concerns of the present, Starfleet is unlikely to forget that its main goal is to ensure the future. Ultimately the Federation must continue with its scientific and exploratory missions if it to remain the vibrant and active culture it has always been. Starfleet is the principle instrument of this process, and as such it will surely continue to prosecute to the fullest the mandate outlined in the motto of its most famous vessel - "to explore strange new worlds, to seek out new life forms and new civilizations, to boldly go where no one has gone before".
References
# Series Season Source Comment
1 Star Trek The Next Generation Technical Manual
2 Star Trek Deep Space Nine Technical Manual
3 Generic official information
4 DS9 2 The Jem'Hadar
5 DS9 6 A Time to Stand
6 DS9 6 Sacrifice of Angels
7 DS9 6 In the Pale Moonlight
8 DS9 6 Tears of the Prophets
9 DS9 3 The Search, Part 1
10 The Search for Spock
11 Star Trek Deep Space Nine Technical Manual, Page 140
SO refitting existing ships would arguably be prudent to replenish the number of ships in the fleet.This was just the War,I haven't tallied the loses to the Borg yet,40 more right off the top for Wolf 359 .
-MP
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Post by: ModelsPlease on March 31, 2004, 08:19:18 am
The second Borg attack on the Federation came in 2373. A single cube again attempted to reach Earth and assimilate its population.1 By this time Starfleet had been building up its forces in the core of the Federation for several years in response to the Romulan, Borg and Dominion threats; five hundred Starships met the Borg ship at the Typhon sector1 and fought a four day running battle all the way to Earth. Starfleet managed to inflict significant damage on the cube's outer hull, but the Borg inflicted massive losses on the fleet in the process.1 By the time the cube reached Earth some three hundred and twenty ships had been lost, most of them with all hands.
The Enterprise-E arrived at the battle, in violation of orders, as the Borg entered orbit. Captain Picard was able to use his knowledge of the borg to locate a weak point on the hull, and by concentrating the firepower of the few remaining ships on that spot the cube was successfully destroyed. However, the Borg launched a spherical escape pod of some kind as the cube was destroyed, and this ship generated a temporal vortex in order to go into the past and assimilate Earth there. The sphere attacked the launch site of Zephram Cochrane's warp ship, damaging the vessel and killing many of the support staff. They hoped that this would prevent First Contact between the Humans and Vulcans, thus preventing the creation of the Federation. The Enterprise followed the sphere through the vortex and destroyed it, although a group of Borg transported to the Starship and almost assimilated the ship. Eventually the Enterprise crew where successful in both overcoming this attack and correcting the damage done to the past.1
4077-320=3757
So after all is said and done this is what's left
Class / Type / Number Left
Akira / FBCH / 134
Ambassador / *(Enhanced) FDN / 31 / *Upgrade/Refit
Centaur / FFF / 303
Challanger / FCL / 9
Cheyenne / *(Enhanced)FCA / 30 / *Upgrade/Refit
Constellation / *(Obsolete)FCA / 5 / *Retired
Defiant / Escort / 26
Excelsior/ *(Standard)FBCH / 192 / *Excelsior style
Excelsior / *(Variant 1)FBCH / 58 /*1701-B subtype
Excelsior / *(Variant 2)FBCH / 1 / *Lakota Enhanced combat subtype
Freedom / FCA / 14
Galaxy / *(Basic)FDN / 14 / *Ent-D
Galaxy / *(Uprated)FDN / 25 / *Refit
Griffin / FDD / 6
Intrepid / FCL / 35
MIranda / *(Enhanced)FDD / 353 / *Refit
Nebula / *(Basic)FBCH / 47
Nebula / *(Basic with Pod) / 23
Nebula / *(Uprated with Pod) / 23 /*Refit
NewOrleans / FFF / 98
Niagra / Fast FCA / 92
Norway / *(Enhanced)FDD / 68
Nova / FFF / 17
Oberth / FFF / 1,137
Olympic / FCL / 21
Polaris / FFF / 14
Prometheus / FCL / 1
Raider / *FFF / 150 / *Specification for Gamma Type Assault Craft
Raven / FFF / 118
Rigel / FCA / 14
Saber / FFF / 152
Shelley / FCA / 83
Sovereign / *(Basic)FDN / 3 / *Ent-E
Sovereign / *(Uprated) / 5 /*Nemesis refit
Springfield / FFF / 12
Steamrunner / FCL / 160
Trident / FCL / 5
Yeager / FCL / 3
There it is....7,877 - 4,394 (Destroyed / Retired) = 3,483
IMHO there's plenty of room in the Fleet for refits and new ships.
-MP
Post by: olbuzzard on March 31, 2004, 08:42:47 pm
looks like there should be plenty of room !
Post by: Magnum357 on March 31, 2004, 09:27:45 pm
With roughly 40% of Starfleets ships left, ModelsPleases theory that many older designed ships (example, Excelcior Class) might be the only hulls available for certain type of missions. Even the Daystom Institute indcates the Soverigns are the most powerful ships in Starfleet right now, and even then, the Sov's where a crash war program started in the 2340's. Some people on this website indicate that the Titan is a New and more advanced ship then the Sovs. Their might be a design on the drawing boards, the an actual vessel could take a couple of decades too be fully designed and Produced. We already know that the Galaxy class took 20 years too get the class into full production. Since the Sovs where designed around the same time period as the Galaxies, its possible the Sovs took some time too build too. Even in Starfleet Battles, the Klingons B-10's took a good 10 too 15 years too build and they where only able too build 4 of them.
I still like my suggestion of the Hyrbrid Galaxy ship, but the total reconfiguration of an Excelcior might a more plausable theory after all. But if the Titan is something like this, I'm not so sure about the model on this thread. No offense too the modeler, but I'm not all that hot on this Refited excelcior design.
On a final note, some one suggested a Norway could be the Titan. This is very possible since Will and Diana both got married and might have wanted too serve aboard a ship that is involved in a lot more peaceful misions then a combat/Explorer vessel like the Ent-E.
Post by: ModelsPlease on April 01, 2004, 05:14:18 am
Thank you OlBuzzard sir for taking on modeling choice #4
USS Titan
Look for my next thread with my ideas and some more cool research for the Post War Federation Fleet.With the amount of talented people here it should be a fantastic debate and maybe,if we are lucky,some new cool ships.
-MP
Post by: Kaenyne on April 01, 2004, 08:14:59 am
This is great news! This version of the Titan is a magnificent vessel.
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on April 01, 2004, 12:54:58 pm
adam out
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on April 01, 2004, 12:56:53 pm
i sense it
adam out
Post by: ActiveX on April 01, 2004, 02:25:37 pm
Post by: nx_adam_1701 on April 01, 2004, 08:15:40 pm
Post by: olbuzzard on April 02, 2004, 10:00:44 pm
Quote:
Thank you OlBuzzard sir for taking on modeling choice #4 the USS Titan.
.... Well ... I'm not as good as Azel ( been about 30+ years since we've put pecil on paper like this....) heheh can you say R U S T Y ??
In order to get the proportions correct from the 3 drawings it was necessary to do a little cut/paste and resize ( Primary hull needs to be larger .... still needs a bit of work) .. Add this to the debate mix ( Input appreciated )
thanks
Post by: ModelsPlease on April 03, 2004, 12:28:19 am
-MP
Post by: Magnum357 on April 03, 2004, 02:42:20 pm
Post by: olbuzzard on April 03, 2004, 02:58:45 pm
Quote:
I don't know guys... looks like something out of Batman in my opinion. Nice design, just not my style I guess.
so noted ... I really hadn't quite thought about it like that ... but I can see why you might think of it that way. For what ever it's worth I appreciate the input.. and your honesty. Even if it does sting a bit. But ... then again if I going to make some sort of contribution that is actually worth while I have got to start some where.
Thanks bud !!!
BTW... I have already started using some "E" series B&W textures to redo that hull. Some of it will still be used (more like just the out lines of it ... tne rest will be TNG textures.
Post by: SovereignEmpire on April 03, 2004, 04:43:45 pm
Post by: Kaenyne on April 06, 2004, 10:44:59 am
Post by: Rat_Boy on April 06, 2004, 11:03:16 am
Post by: E_Look on April 06, 2004, 11:04:32 am
Nuthin' rong wit Batman designs. Tuff starships oughtta be dark 'n' scary lookin'.
And privately, over the years, I've always kind of held this against Federation designs- they look really nice, and that's the problem. I think they should be ugly in an "Aliens" or "Psycho" kind of way, as they are warships (fuggedaboud the explorer stuff... leave that for the cute Oberth class ships or whatever, but the Kirk, Picard type stuff should be bristling with weapons, mean looks, and a legion of Marines armed to the teeth, so they can more efficiently help the little commercial shuttles cross from one planet to the other in their solar systems safely when the light turns green).
Stick more megaphasers and quantums on your design!!
Post by: olbuzzard on April 06, 2004, 12:26:27 pm
1. The three deflector dish thing....
2. It apears too bulky (primarily the saucer)
I think Azel had kinda the right idea... but it was too close to the D design in its lay out. If you look closly at my sketch( heheh well ... not too closly), we essentially did the same thing. (the best of both worlds)... If ya clean up the "batman" texture and leave the central parts of teh layout to the primary hull it would be much better. ( Good constructive criticism ... and I appreciate what was said). I'm going to try to find the time after this week to find some texture work we can cut and paste to add a more apporpriate finish to the design. It should also be noted that we borrowed an idea from Azels Ent "J" (namely the naucells) and added a bit of my own to it. I still have a long way to go before this is a viable interpritation of the Titan. The paitence that the community has demonstrated with my limited time (and obviously equally limited skill as well) has been deeply appreciated.
thanks
Post by: ModelsPlease on April 06, 2004, 04:42:50 pm
Quote:
I love Wicked Zombie/Azel's Titan class the best. The Sovereign/Galaxy combination is awesome. The other designs though are a little too advanced looking for the era. The tripple deflector dishes dont appeal to me much either. I wonder if Frakes would be interested in starting a new Trek show that has the voyages of the Titan?
I love that ship as well,it's a great concept indeed.I was kinda hoping Paramount could convince Geoge Tekkei to rehash Sulu's exploits as Excelsior Capt for a new series.