Print Page - OP Patch Status?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on February 28, 2003, 09:30:05 am

Quote:

FS, making the pirate layer neutral only causes empires to hurt their own defense values when running successful missions in their own hexes. Since political settings don't allow for neutral to be treated differently on the cartel map vs. the empire map, the settings tweaks available are limited. Even so, if you set neutral as allied to all empires, having the neutral cartel layer creates problems when enemies engage each other on the empire map -- if you win, you are hurting the enemy hex DV, but also "winning" for the neutral cartel underneath. It gets really confusing, because the DV effects depend upon not only the mission results and politics, but also the DV status of the cartel layer, which is invisible.

See above suggestion?
-- Luc

EDIT: .. fine.. previous page then!
-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on February 28, 2003, 10:05:01 am

Quote:

Moggy, thanks for the insight. I have to admit I haven't played EAW D2 much since the parts were "fixed." On the other hand, shouldn't a larger ship be able to repair more systems, having more capacity for repair crews and parts? Have any D2 campaigns used high-priced repair parts, so it would be costly to fly around with 20 spare parts, making pilots choose between saving prestige for new ships or spending it to keep their current one in top shape during a battle? I'd at least like the option for server admins to be able to set the parts to full or the 8-part limit. After all, 8 is pretty arbitrary, no? I mean, an FF that can only get up to 4 parts is in the same situation you describe vs. a CL that can carry 8.

Doug, I have no qualms about having a reasonable stepped progression of spares based on ship size being implemented. But what we have now in EAW is nothing like that. If it were based on ship's damage control rating, then that would be fine, but it's not. A DN/CVA can carry 40 magic screws. Enough to almost completely repair its warp engines. Doesn't that sound a little over the top?

I'll try and go into more detail of the battle that made me realise what was finally happening. On AOTK I, in a KCR, engaged a player in a Mirak CVA. By saberdancing with phasers, and the occasional plasma hit, I had reduced all his shields down to bare red, and was mounting the internals up on him. Phaser volley after phaser volley ripped into him, and yet he still managed to disengage from the battle. The after battle report showed him to have taken in excess of 200 internals, and yet he could still make top speed. What kept him at that speed were the magic screws.

Raising the price of magic screws just leads to players taking them off enemy ai with transporters.

Yes, 8 is pretty arbitrary. I would have no objections to 2 x Damage Control rating, but frkkn 40 is obscene, ridiculous and penalises saber dancing.

The final comment on a FF with 4 v a CL with 8, I don't really get. It certainly is not the same situation from where I'm sat lol. In fact, I'd be much happier in that instance as the FF, as there is a huge difference between 8 magic screws and 40 lol.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 10:52:25 am

FS, if you mean the suggestion to use one cartel blanketing the map instead of all neutral, there are similar problems -- if it is allied to all, the net change of zero situation comes up. If it an enemy to all, players hurt their own empire DVs, but not until the cartel underneath is flipped neutral. What I'd like to see tried is having an all-neutral cartel layer that is actually NEUTRAL. The way the .gf settings work for politics makes this a little difficult, since all relationships are calculated as percentages. I've always said a much better political tension assignment would be strict values, so 500 is neutral, 1000 is mortal enemy, 0 is long-term ally, and anything either side of 500 is an increasing friendship or enemy relation to the extreme points of 0 and 1000. Of course, we don't have that system, and won't, so what to do? With careful manipulation, we could get truly neutral neutrals, I think, so it's at least worth a shot. I'm skeptical about how successful this would be, but at least it is something else to try.

Moggy, I totally agree with you -- the parts system should be reasonably regulated, and double the damage control rating seems fair. I was under the impression the parts ARE determined by the damage control value. If not, what IS controlling it? We all know where 8 came from (number able to be shown in the repair screen), but can someone explain to me how any given ship's parts limits are calculated?

According to my specs, a Z-CVA has a damage control of 9 in OP. Assuming that's right, how many does it get in GSA (and thus would get if OP D2 received full spares capacity)? If we doubled these figures, the CVA would end up with 18 possible spares. An L-FF with a damage control of 3 would get 6 possible spares -- what does it get now?

You're right about the costs of spares -- mission hosts would be able to "steal" spares off of AIs, but nobody else would be able to do so (or has the host-only transporter display bug been squashed?). At least if everyone could do it, it would make for an interesting little mini-game within the battle. Also, small ship captains would have less prestige to throw into buying spares.

Unfortunately, we're never going to get rid of this poor repair system, so can anyone come up with a way to improve it within the limitations? For instance, can we somehow use the ship damage control specs to force a ship size class-based stepping of spare parts? A DD could get 4, a CA 8, a BCH 12, a DN 16, a BB 20, or somesuch. I still don't like that a large ship gets penalized by the spare part limit. Still, if I had to choose between penalizing big ships and penalizing small ones, I'd choose the former -- those small ships need as much help as possible when the big-ship nutters dominate a campaign.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on February 28, 2003, 11:17:54 am

Doug, there's a thread http://bozobits.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=1441&highlight=spare+parts in which Chris Lee did some testing, although some anomalies were also discovered. It's something we're stuck with in EAW, and I sincerely hope that it doesn't get put into OP. If it does then it kills the saber dance as a viable tactic in OP imho. May as well fly a droner and just overload their repair ability with bucketloads of type IV drones - how varied that will be, sigh.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 11:22:16 am

Moggy, thanks for the reference. I'll check it out.

A little bird tells me this fix may already be in place somewhere in testing -- you might want to petition Taldren directly for reversion or an alternate system (or fix). If it's causing that much trouble in D2 missions, it really should be examined more closely.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on February 28, 2003, 11:49:28 am

Doug, if it's already in then I very much doubt that they'd take it out, especially as the player base is split between wanting low numbers and high numbers of magic screws.

Not to worry, Freelancer is proving to be an extremely enjoyable, addictive and playable experience, with continuous space, more than 6 people in battles etc.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 12:05:59 pm

Well, I'm unnerved by the fact that nobody appears to be able to figure out exactly how the ships get the number of maximum spares they do. Even that SFC2.net thread didn't come up with anything difinitive. It makes it difficult to tell if a thing is working right or balanced if there is no calculation we can use to check the results.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 01, 2003, 02:41:10 pm

Bump

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on March 02, 2003, 12:57:27 am

What?! A DD with only 4 magic screws?

*screams and dies*

That's a bit harsh.

I'm definately no authority on this, playing only feds/hydrans/lyrans, and playing light ships only (where there are much less spare parts) but I generally don't encounter this "Cabable of repairing his way to victory" problem. They repair for awhile, but for both me and him parts get pretty thin pretty fast in a pitched battle. It can mean the difference between victory and defeat, but in my experience, only very closely pitched battles.

Isn't this a problem already for all dizzy users? I mean, you only hit 4-3 d6 per dizzy per volley at saber dancing range, which means that you're going to, in effect, Mizia someone to death. It can't worm its way up the DAC quite as ferociously as a dreaded mirak's type IV missle spread, which would mean that you don't just get the benefit of being able to hit those critical systems again and again, you HAVE to hit those systems again and again. Couple that with the fact that the systems you're hitting are much less of the time power systems, and being able to get to speed (but having no weapons, hull or bridge) seems more a normal precipitation of what should be happening as opposed to a horrendous bug.

Aren't doubled internals still in effect? If so, that would be more of an impediment than the magic screws.

Since this seems to be the current topic of debate, I must say that I am opposed to having tiny spare part hatches. It might mean the difference between a disabled (and escaped) and a destroyed vessel to you, but it means the difference between barely surviving and being blown to bits for a small ship captain like me; Small spare part hatches hurt light element commanders more than heavy element ones, if there wasn't enough *already* to discourage light ship use.

This is also completely off topic, but since we've wandered away from patching status for some time now, I feel comfortable in speaking about it. Do crew experience ratings go up with one's rank in OP? I don't know if anyone's noticed, but if one's an admiral, it's seemingly much easier to turn a F-DD than at the time when one was a Lt. Commander. If true, this would be another factor why big ships survive more than little ships (the people being able to afford big ships being, generally, higher in rank than the ones with little ships).

This is even MORE of topic, but saying BUMP isn't verbose enough for me today, so i'll ramble on. What happens when you lose all those points in a critical system? If you lose all the hull points, i'm aware that other than having to move deeper into the DAC, nothing happens. Losing sensors makes you (supposedly) lose missle control and electronic warfare and losing labs can impact on shield regeneration. What happens when all the Bridge points are lost? Do you *really* lose EW ablities/ missle control when you lose sensors?

Anyway, for people who skim posts, in summary:

1. I prefer small ships. Small ships are nice.

2. Saberdancing seems to work the way it's supposed to (against me, anyway).

3. I want to keep all the spare parts I have. Gimme back my magik screws.

4. Do crew experience ratings go up as you raise in rank? Tasks *do* seem to become easier...

5. what happens when all the points in sensors/bridge/other-critical-system-of-your-choice leave, other than moving up the DAC?

The most verbose bump this side of a forum,

Holocat.

PS. You forced your opponent to retreat, didn't you? You won, right? What's so incredibly unjust at merely having them retreat before you? Isn't the victory proof that saberdancing does work, as opposed to does not?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on March 03, 2003, 02:09:59 am

To get to the core of the question about number of spares. Players of small ships have noticed that the outcomes are now different when everybody is carrying 40 spares compared to when it used ot be 8 spares. When less spares were available the ships would soon reach a decision point as one or the other ran out quickly after a couple of good hits. Now the number of good hits required to finish off another small ship is much greater and the average small ship behaves as if it has much greater durability than it used to. A problem I noticed was with the plasma races. By the time the plasma had recharged the other ship would have all it's damage repaired while a phaser-boater could keep the damage up and get a kill by exceeding the repair rate of it's target. A win by endurance that wasn't there before and alters the balance a little bit.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on March 03, 2003, 06:07:48 am

Holocat: yes I won by forcing my opponent to retreat. However, on that particular server, DNs/CVAs were worth Victory Points if destroyed, but you got nothing if they escaped. Therefore, being able to fully repair warp engines (something which should only be possible at a starbase/shipyard) by dint of having so many repairs, cost my side those points.

I will also note that PF tenders managed to register some DN kills on that server, because they could inflict enough damage to gut the target so it couldn't escape. I suppose, therefore, that my complaint is my own fault, because I like to fly non DN/non carrier ships, and rely on my skill rather than ai help i.e. I try to play the game without resorting to what is commonly termed "cheese".

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Can-able on March 03, 2003, 06:41:54 am

Quote:

I try to play the game without resorting to what is commonly termed "cheese".

Laugh it up cheese ball !!!!

(Think Han to Chewwy)

Any way Hornets arn't cheese

They are just mean Dairylee slices

Sorry i am bored and can't be arsed to come up with some thing constructice.....

O i agree with Moggy on the screw thinggy...to many is just silly

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on March 03, 2003, 09:59:54 pm

Wait, fourty screws on a small ship?

*actually loads OP and looks at the Ye Magikal Screwe compliment*

Oh, I see why this bothers you so much more than me. In Orion Pirates, ship class determines max spare part capacity.

For frigates and destroyers it's 15, for cruisers it's 20 and for dreadnoughts and carriers it's 35.

If I understand you correctly, you're saying that in EAW everything can carry fourty screws, from the FF to the CV. In a tiny ship I would say yes, fourty screws would be a bit too many, though since I play fed, and thus usually have enough crunch to deal with 'repairing to victory.' I can see this would be a problem for the crunch-challanged ships of the Klingons; doubled internals AND fourty screws? That's just plain amusing.

Of couse, 35 isn't that much less than 40, so it might still be a problem if you were to fight a DN for crunch-challanged ships.

In OP i've only got 15 in my little destroyer, and like you've said, i've noticed that combats are usually a little longer than when we had 8. Then again, I find AMD impacts on survivability far more than the screw limits; Slightly longer for small ship battles, yes. Less decisive? Usually no.

All truth told, i'd be perfectly happy with ten or so screws, but FOUR?! I still think that's way too few.

Hehehehe! A destroyer with fourty screws! That's so funny, (where do I sign up?

)

Holocat.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on March 04, 2003, 01:34:20 am

Be aware that you get different maximum spares for the single player and multiplayer games. Why is the D2 different? Don't know and it would probably make my head hurt a lot to find out.

Title: Temporary OP D2 Fixing
Post by: Carrie on March 04, 2003, 12:01:05 pm

All right. I have OP Loaded up to 2.5.2.5. How do I disable all but /one/ cartel?

I had it hit me earlier today, how to do it, after the discussion about having one cartel mapwide, and having it allied to everyone wouldn't help.

That's wen it hit me. If I put in one cartel/keep all cartels, and have them allied only to the empire I'm playing at the time, will that help it? It sounds like its practically a cheat, but it hit me that it might alsl be the way to keep it from losing my hexes after I take them.

Also, where does 'Orion' in Metamap fit in. With OrionOrion as a separate group, and such?

*thought three* If I set it so it doesn't add much tension after battle, would it work if the cartels were all listed as allied to the emp, even if the emp itself listed the cartels as enemies?

Title: Re: Temporary OP D2 Fixing
Post by: FireSoul on March 04, 2003, 12:08:56 pm

I think the D2 works well in single player.
It's on the server side that there's a problem.

Title: Re: Temporary OP D2 Fixing
Post by: Carrie on March 04, 2003, 12:10:36 pm

No, it doesn't. It has the same problems with Empire/Cartel hex interaction that the online D2 has. Specifically, you can't hold the damned hexes. That's why I asked about fixes for the next patches.

And I'm trying to fix it, so I don't lose everything I gain in two seconds.

For another quick question, what's the load order for .gf files in OP? I'd like to have some guess at what file is bad, when it crashes partway through campaign loadup... I figure if it crashes on clicking 'start', its a different file being a problem, than if it crashes at the middle, or at the end.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Rondo_GE on March 05, 2003, 02:54:12 am

Never is the word your looking for.

N E V E R

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on March 07, 2003, 11:41:07 pm

Too important a topic to let it slip to the back pages.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 10, 2003, 02:36:04 am

Re: Rondo_GE: Die screaming.

I will not let this thread die. Ever. Not even if it means an unscheduled trip to Taldren myself.

Title: Re: Temporary OP D2 Fixing
Post by: Holocat on March 10, 2003, 05:40:14 am

Quote:

If I put in one cartel/keep all cartels, and have them allied only to the empire I'm playing at the time, will that help it? It sounds like its practically a cheat, but it hit me that it might alsl be the way to keep it from losing my hexes after I take them.

From what I understand, this would be the general outcome:

If you win a mission, you and your cartel win, so you can take sectors and raise/lower DV normally.

If an enemy empire attacks either his own hexes or yours, he wins and cartel looses, no DV change, though cartel DV may go down. (and eventually result in the neutral hex bug)

So it would seem that you could take and hold sectors, but no one else could, which is perfectly OK in single player.

And OP D2 whether it's single or multi-player is bugged; If you play a standard map long enough as an empire, you'll notice that the empires will shrink over time, eventually to the point where they only cover the same hexes as the underlying cartel does. I found it cute, but I think most people find it aggravating.

I also still believe that flipping the empires to the cartel layer and the cartels to the empire layer the last best hope for fixing OP D2.

The story of OP's patch adventure is beginning to sound like a biblical epic,

Holocat.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on March 10, 2003, 08:48:51 pm

BUMP for news!

I'm pretty sure this patch in progress is a year old now....

Qa pla!

KF

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Gamester on March 10, 2003, 10:20:15 pm

Current status of OP patch as of 3/10/03 is as follows:

We are still very actively working on it. Some people are testing scripting and others are testing specific bug fixes. I myself have been doing alot of LAN testing.

It seems as if every build we test has a single major bug that nixes releasing it. The next build fixes the bug, but then we get a new and different one! As this is the last major OP client patch, we are making sure it is released in as close to a state of perfection as is possible. We have made great strides in this direction.

NOTE: Many (not all) of the OP D2 fixes are SERVER side (as in the downloadable OP D2 server) fixes and will be worked on in a later patch (or more probably, a new release of the server kit). Our concern and current work is for the OP client, the actual game, so to speak. The patch should be released soon. I can tell you that when it is finally released, you will probably find it has been worth the wait. It is overall VERY polished.

I realize it is frustrating to wonder if anything is actually going on or if everyone has just gone out to lunch. I hope this post helps ease some people's minds. OP is being worked on RIGHT NOW, and not in a half-@$$ed fashion either. We are whole-hog on this puppy.

Gamester

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Rod O'neal on March 10, 2003, 11:01:22 pm

Thanks for the update, Gamester. It's nice to read that work is progressing. It's much appreciated

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 11, 2003, 12:44:11 am

Again, a reminder, not all of the OP D2 fixes ARE server side. I'm having issues in SINGLE PLAYER, on CLIENT side, especially with the hex interactions. Some of that washes right over into clientside things, to make single player and such playable. And with people like Firesoul and NuclearWessels putting out new fantastic missions playable in single player, that is STILL an issue.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on March 11, 2003, 01:49:36 am

As long as it is still happening.

Will there be an open delta, just in case?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on March 11, 2003, 05:39:48 am

Thank you Gamester for the update.

Qa Pla!

KF

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on March 11, 2003, 08:17:39 am

I'll be posting this elsewhere, but I thought this thread might be a good place to offer some results of a small sampling of OP D2 missions. These focus on the problems with defense value (DV) changes to hexes apparently due to the problems between the cartel and empire map interactions. In the test server, all cartels were either friendly/allied or at worst "distrusted" by the empires (meaning two enemy empires can have a common friendly cartel). Neutral space was considered "friendly" by the empires.

Feel free to add your own experiences (in the main thread for these results) for the benefit of any testers, developers, or ArticFire, who is supposed to be working on the D2 issues according to Taldren.

1. Neutral cartel under an empire hex still causes DV drops upon win. This happens even if neutral is considered "friendly" (and thus appears unfixable via the existing settings options). If you drop the hex all the way, instead of it going neutral on the empire map, you get a hex taken by your race message in news, which resets it to the default DV restore percentage. I can't be certain about PvP results, but it seems like a offense/defense battle in a cartel-neutral hex can only result in a loss for the defender.

2. Some missions appear to have no effect on the hex health as reflected by the News showing no post-battle hex notices. These tend to be missions against non-cartel Orions (why are they even IN the game anymore?), which frankly are more common than missions vs. empire AIs so far.

3. Under the current settings, where every empire considers all cartels as either friendly/allied or at worst distrusting (marginally on the enemy side of neutral), I could not cause a cartel to lose a hex by attacking it as an empire player (more testing would be helpful). However, I also could not BOOST my empire hexes even with a friendly cartel underneath, presumably because whoever I beat in the mission was also friendly with that cartel, or at least non-antagonistic. This means you can't get normal DV boosts (may be a couple missions that break the trend, but they aren't the standard
patrols/assaults/defenses) without having cartels you're allied to being enemies of your enemies. We're stuck with needing cartel players to capture the same hexes as their allied empires to help them boost their defenses in those hexes. They also need to have the same starting hexes to avoid having players hurt their own territory.

4. With an allied Prime cartel AI (map-based) on my wing while flying Klingon, I was able to flip a cartel-neutral hex to Prime control with a win against a monster. I'm not sure how the monsters relate politically, and with only one mission to go on, it is hard to make broader conclusions.

5. In an Ambush the Enemy mission as Klingon with a map-based Klingon AI ally vs. a map-based Fed AI, I was not able to boost my own hex that had a friendly cartel underneath. I'm not sure if this is the canceling-out of the politics of all factions involved, or a problem with the mission script.

So, I can see no improvements in the cartel/empire map DV interactions. That's to be expected since nobody has really worked on them. I had hoped the friendly cartels and neutrals would have helped the empires, but it doesn't seem to work any better than it did a year-plus ago when I did my more extensive tests for the Rook's Tavern 3 campaign. At this point, no matter how solid the client app is, the single-player campaigns and D2 will not allow for proper give-and-take of territory with DV boosting. This makes the game essentially a PvP match service in D2 and kills any serious attempt to run a strategic map conquest game.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on March 13, 2003, 10:48:07 pm

Sounds like we're getting closer.........bump to the front.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 15, 2003, 03:08:55 pm

Bump to the top, because I smell a patch release soon.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on March 15, 2003, 08:15:17 pm

Gotta keep the faith.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 15, 2003, 11:37:20 pm

In this matter, I don't need faith.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on March 16, 2003, 12:48:18 am

Yes, but you are on the inside loop. Us poor peons just have to look up at the house on the hill and wait for somebody on a horse to ride down and tell us what's going on every so often. Now I'll get back to my magic wombats and sacrifical chickens.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 16, 2003, 12:58:24 am

Yeah, what he said.

So, anything you can tell us poor peons, then? Or are we stuck in the blind for a little longer?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on March 16, 2003, 02:34:21 am

Wellllll....keep an eye on the announcements section...cause we may be getting real close now.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 16, 2003, 03:58:49 am

Will there be an updated new release of the OP Scripting API with the new patch?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 16, 2003, 05:29:39 am

Quote:

Will there be an updated new release of the OP Scripting API with the new patch?

No.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 16, 2003, 07:10:15 am

That has been said before, Satyr.

It is not reassuring. It makes me an infuriated little mushroom, still fed bull and kept in the blind due to the NDAs and such. Guess I'll have to capture an employee or tester, and torture information out of them then.

*starts sharpening the knives*

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 16, 2003, 07:31:53 am

Quote:

That has been said before, Satyr.

It is not reassuring. It makes me an infuriated little mushroom, still fed bull and kept in the blind due to the NDAs and such. Guess I'll have to capture an employee or tester, and torture information out of them then.

*starts sharpening the knives*

I hear Firesoul is into that kinda thing--start with him.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 16, 2003, 07:32:53 am

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 16, 2003, 08:01:06 pm

I would agree that an API upgrade with fixes would .. immensely.. improve the game.

ie:
- being able to set drones
- mSetFighters that works on Human played ships
- a "mGetFighters(ship, baynum)" would be great.
- mGetShuttles(ship) for the current number of shuttles on a ship would also be good.
- mRandomFighters(ship) .. would set fighters on ship, based on current era data. .. if the ship carries fighters of course.
..etc?

.. but I seriously doubt any attention will be paid to these ideas since the API hasn't been improved in SFC:EAW either. .. having said that, SFC:EAW *does* have a SQL system in place. That system CAN be ported to SFC:OP if the effort is applied to enhance it for a pirate map and extra races.

.. I think SQL will make it.

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 16, 2003, 08:11:20 pm

Well, if the OP API will have working methods for, in particular fighter, PF, and shuttle loadouts, as well as drones, and the OP server gets a SQL kit that works efficiently without bugs or errors, and, the client-side bug fix proves to be better than the current state of EAW, I predict that OP will make a dramatic comeback.
Now, if the Andromedans could get more than just the TR beams (a Displacement Device and P/A panels as well), and throw in a Web Generator/Web Caster for the Tholians... (ok, I'm just thinking wishfully here of course), demand for OP is going to be very high and will prompt a lot of people to create mods, mission scripts, SQL server work for it, etc.
I put it to you, those who wish OP to be the success it could be, to take that little bit of extra effort and time to add/improve as much as you can to it, because your investment in the long wrong will far outweigh the cost. Now is your chance.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 16, 2003, 08:15:45 pm

I know.. I know.. I agree with all of the above. It's a great wishlist.

BUT..

.. Taldren is a business, and there's no money to be made with SFC:OP anymore, AFAIK.
.. .. .. No money, no candy.

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Strafer on March 16, 2003, 09:12:42 pm

Hey, is it just me or is the USS Australia in Tracey's latest sig image right-side-up?
I would've expected the bridge to be down-under myself.
<-- runs away now

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on March 17, 2003, 01:09:08 am

and that is what is taking so long...people keep finding more things they want fixed and the delay on the patch keeps dragging on.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 01:48:15 am

How much longer would it take for a better API with some of the added suggestions of the forumites, Satyr? I'd hope not terribly long. But it'd probably mean having to test all the recompiled missions under it. eep. I guess it just depends on how much more they want for the script editing, to make OP more fun for all.

If the people making OP into everything it could be, above and beyond EAW, want the API updated, I'll wait longer for the patch and play EAW until then

Now while you're pondering that, Fix the single player(client-side) D2 so I can run conquest properly. Or give whoever is working that a nice poke, to find out if they've made headway with it or not.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 17, 2003, 06:12:22 am

Quote:

Hey, is it just me or is the USS Australia in Tracey's latest sig image right-side-up?
I would've expected the bridge to be down-under myself.
<-- runs away now

Actually... if you try looking at it from the front... yes, that's right, put yourself right in front of it... can you see the photon torpedoe tubes yet? You can? Excellant!
<makes a secret signal to the weapons officer>

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 17, 2003, 06:19:23 am

Quote:

and that is what is taking so long...people keep finding more things they want fixed and the delay on the patch keeps dragging on.

I have:
Microsoft Visual Studio v6.0 SP5
Both the EAW and OP API.
Written Mission Scripts (from scratch) for EAW that work.
All the source code to all the EAW and OP mission scripts (except the Starbase Construction mission)
and...
I'm in my 3rd year of a double degree in Computer Science at university and have completed all the C++ requirements (in fact, I got an 'A' average in 1st year).

If the only problem is recompiling OP scripts for a new API, then please, give me a NDA to sign and I'll do it myself...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 09:40:46 am

Quote:

I have:
Microsoft Visual Studio v6.0 SP5
Both the EAW and OP API.
Written Mission Scripts (from scratch) for EAW that work.
All the source code to all the EAW and OP mission scripts (except the Starbase Construction mission)
and...
I'm in my 3rd year of a double degree in Computer Science at university and have completed all the C++ requirements (in fact, I got an 'A' average in 1st year).

If the only problem is recompiling OP scripts for a new API, then please, give me a NDA to sign and I'll do it myself...

So would I.
I *have* signed an NDA long ago, andI would recompile them all too if a new API came out. I would also have to recompile the CoopAce script, btw.

But.
.. there will be no new OP Scripting API in this patch. That's what I meant by 'no'. The reason is .. the patch is pretty much completely ready as it is, unless someone finds a bad bug. Testing continues. There won't be anything else added at this time (at all) to the current patch.

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 09:46:46 am

Quote:

All the source code to all the EAW and OP mission scripts (except the Starbase Construction mission)

It's in Taldren OP sources.. and I have no doubt it could be compiled within EAW without too many problems.

http://klingon.stasis.ca/sources_and_utils/OP_Scripts.zip

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 03:18:53 pm

Yes, its 'in testing' again. And you should be testing it instead of posting on the forum so much, to get it out faster

Because I don't believe statements to 'watch the announcements', I'm certain a post over here will announce in all fanfare that the OP patch is up.. And then I will go back to waiting for the clientside Dyna patch, so I can play singleplayer with your and NuclearWessels' stuff, and have just as fun as I'd have online, and even maybe try playing online again.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 17, 2003, 04:09:14 pm

Quote:

Yes, its 'in testing' again. And you should be testing it instead of posting on the forum so much, to get it out faster

Because I don't believe statements to 'watch the announcements', I'm certain a post over here will announce in all fanfare that the OP patch is up.. And then I will go back to waiting for the clientside Dyna patch, so I can play singleplayer with your and NuclearWessels' stuff, and have just as fun as I'd have online, and even maybe try playing online again.

Hmmm...you sound soooo...ummm....happy.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 04:19:52 pm

Quote:

Yes, its 'in testing' again. And you should be testing it instead of posting on the forum so much, to get it out faster

Because I don't believe statements to 'watch the announcements', I'm certain a post over here will announce in all fanfare that the OP patch is up.. And then I will go back to waiting for the clientside Dyna patch, so I can play singleplayer with your and NuclearWessels' stuff, and have just as fun as I'd have online, and even maybe try playing online again.

Me?
I'm done testing. I'm happy with it and gave my "good to go" this weekend.
.. that and the fact that I play with Strafer and others at a Lan party every weekend with my latest works, and we always brought along the latest test patch. (with permission)

.. so what was said is accurate: watch for the announcement.
-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 08:08:56 pm

And they all said 'good to go', hmm?

I'll be watching then. And even more grumpy every day it doesn't show up

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 08:19:33 pm

Someone did find a bug after all, but it's D2 related. (it's in the readme.txt but never got coded)
We'll see what Taldren decides to do about it.

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 08:24:02 pm

D2 related? /single player/ D2 related, and possibly involved with the single player problems I've been having trying any conquest campaigns? I'll wait in that case.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 17, 2003, 08:44:04 pm

Quote:

Someone did find a bug after all, but it's D2 related. (it's in the readme.txt but never got coded)
We'll see what Taldren decides to do about it.

-- Luc

Someone?

Watch Luc test. Test, Luc, test....yadda yadda yadda....blah blah blah...and all that jazz.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 08:53:57 pm

Quote:

Someone?
Watch Luc test. Test, Luc, test....yadda yadda yadda....blah blah blah...and all that jazz.

Hey. I might've been responsible for some of the delays (because I found problems) .. but this one wasn't mine!
-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 09:36:45 pm

Oh dear, now people are pointing fingers at each other for holding the patch up. That is.. .sad.

Silly people

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 17, 2003, 10:18:59 pm

Hey. Be nice to the testers.

We're evil.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 17, 2003, 11:55:13 pm

Quote:

Hey. Be nice to the testers.

We're evil.

Yes, FS. I'm sure that you are.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on March 18, 2003, 02:02:03 am

Phaser B fixed yet? Mauler fixed?

How about making one change to the ai - stop it firing its point defence phasers at enemy ships at completely ineffective ranges, so that it can atually have better drone defence?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on March 18, 2003, 03:28:27 am

Geez...I was responsible for the SFC3 patch needing a new revision and nobody ever got on my case about it.*laffin*

Be nice to Fire Soul,or else he'll keep the patch tied up in testing till judgement day. hehehehehehe

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 18, 2003, 06:45:17 am

Quote:

Quote:

Someone?
Watch Luc test. Test, Luc, test....yadda yadda yadda....blah blah blah...and all that jazz.

Hey. I might've been responsible for some of the delays (because I found problems) .. but this one wasn't mine!
-- Luc

ok, if you say so, FireSoul...

hehe

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Dizzy on March 18, 2003, 08:18:03 am

Quote:

Emerald Edge:

Actually not quite a year yet still. I believed the patch had been released sometime in early February last year but in checking the old forum announcements, it was actually Jan. 28.

That having been said, ... Taldren should be thanking their lucky stars they have as many supporters as they still have, which is nowhere near the number they used to have back at SFC2 release. You'd think they'd be tryin' to do anything they can to save them.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on March 19, 2003, 12:05:56 am

BUMP

C'mon guys...

WHEN [notice word choice, LOL] is the "flipping" patch going to be available to the public?

I can't believe there is a ton of more stuff holding it up.

Nothing quite like reading [nobody specific] stuff like: " I got the patch its working fine. Wait for the announcement. [What Century please?] Nanner, nanner, nanner!"

I wish all the testers and powers at be success at fixing what has turned out to be my favorite PC Game of all time. Pardon me for sounding impatient, I'm just another dedicated fan dying to have all the latest stuff...

Qa Pla!

KF

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 19, 2003, 12:40:10 am

Well, just remember, this is THE last patch for OP. Patience, grasshopper...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 19, 2003, 02:07:28 am

No, its not 'the' last patch, its the last patch of basic fixes, with the supposed Dyna 2 server/client fix coming down the road later.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on March 19, 2003, 02:09:39 am

Not quite...there is supposed to be a seperate patch that'll deal with the D2 issues.

I hope I live long enough to see THAT patch...*LOL*

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Capt Jeff on March 19, 2003, 06:52:09 am

So,

The Phaser B is still not working in 2537.....is it being addressed?

by not working, I mean that it is not causing triple damage when fired through a downed shield.

I hope this gets fixed.

Love the TRB beams by the way

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 19, 2003, 10:38:25 am

Quote:

Well, just remember, this is THE last patch for OP. Patience, grasshopper...

No, it should not be.
At least I hope it is not.

.. There should be 2 patches for OP. One for all the EAW fixes for the gameplay issues ported to OP.
The other for the D2 issues and SQL, which should come sometime later.

(Hey, we're still busy with the first one.)

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Dizzy on March 19, 2003, 01:02:01 pm

Ya, but has the AI been 'taught' how to use the TRB? Last I heard, the AI had no more clue how to use it than a fusion canon...

Oh, why do I even bother...

~sigh~

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FPF_TraceyG on March 19, 2003, 03:01:24 pm

Quote:

Quote:

Well, just remember, this is THE last patch for OP. Patience, grasshopper...

No, it should not be.
At least I hope it is not.

.. There should be 2 patches for OP. One for all the EAW fixes for the gameplay issues ported to OP.
The other for the D2 issues and SQL, which should come sometime later.

(Hey, we're still busy with the first one.)

-- Luc

Well, that is good news, thanks for that....

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on March 19, 2003, 03:03:32 pm

Quote:

Quote:

Quote:

Well, just remember, this is THE last patch for OP. Patience, grasshopper...

No, it should not be.
At least I hope it is not.

.. There should be 2 patches for OP. One for all the EAW fixes for the gameplay issues ported to OP.
The other for the D2 issues and SQL, which should come sometime later.

(Hey, we're still busy with the first one.)

-- Luc

Well, that is good news, thanks for that....

Note: The SQL work has never been confirmed... but I did catch DavidF mention that there's going to be another patch after the upcoming one.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: kosh2000 on March 19, 2003, 03:35:24 pm

Op fixed hmm i will believe it when i see and not just ports from sfc2 but the op d2 fixed as well.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 19, 2003, 04:18:08 pm

Hiya all,

There are more than just EAW ports in the upcoming patch.

Unfortunately there are still some D2 issues that need addressing. Otoh, imho, game play is greatly enhanced with the upcoming patch.

I'd also like to take this moment to give a HUGE thanks to David Ferrell and Mark for all the effort they've put into the upcoming patch. I also think all the Taldren Beta testers deserve a round of kudos for the time, effort, and resources they've put into tackling, tracking, testing and re-testing bugs and game-play.

I hope you guys enjoy playing a patched OP as much as I have doing my small part in trying to make it fun again.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 19, 2003, 04:22:47 pm

I'll enjoy it as soon as I'm sitting there playing it, how does that sound?

They've been saying 'soon' for how many months now?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 19, 2003, 04:28:30 pm

Quote:

I'll enjoy it as soon as I'm sitting there playing it, how does that sound?

They've been saying 'soon' for how many months now?

Remember that scene in Wrath Of Kahn when Spock tells Kirk how soon the Enterprise will be ready?

Ok, I would hazard a guess that we'll be sooner than that...

or...

I might just be teasing you...

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on March 19, 2003, 05:16:51 pm

I'd hope it's sooner than 6 days.

I'd hope more that it's sooner than 6 hours

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on March 19, 2003, 05:28:07 pm

Quote:

I'd hope it's sooner than 6 days.

I'd hope more that it's sooner than 6 hours

Under threat of painsticks I can say no more...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: kosh2000 on March 19, 2003, 06:03:55 pm

The game was not that that bad except for the d2 itself is a mess i know this frist hand from running a server on op for over a year along with many others that helped and other admins.If the d2 for op is to be fixed by arctic fire in the futrue then what has been fixed besides ports from the eaw patch

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Strafer on March 19, 2003, 06:31:41 pm

Such is the nature of information provided by the reverred RELEASENOTES.TXT

Title: BINGO!!
Post by: Toasty0 on March 20, 2003, 01:57:21 pm

BUMP-AH-ROONIEEEEEE...

Title: Done
Post by: David Ferrell on March 20, 2003, 02:23:48 pm

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=44514&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Thanks,

Dave

Title: Re: Done
Post by: 3dot14 on March 20, 2003, 03:02:40 pm

Quote:

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB16&Number=44514&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=&fpart=1

Thanks,

Dave

Great news, Duely mirrored at SFU.

http://www.strategyplanet.com/sfc/patches_sfcop.shtml

Title: Re: Done
Post by: FireSoul on March 20, 2003, 03:05:08 pm

OP+ version 1.2 for SFC:OP 2538:

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=44561&page=0&view=collapsed&sb=5&o=31&fpart=1

-- Luc

Title: Re: Done
Post by: Carrie on March 20, 2003, 04:09:39 pm

*sheds a tear*

Thanks, guys! Now to install the new patch, and OP+

*scratches her head*

Was the vanishing base problem in later areas fixed? I don't see it listed...

I've tried anything and everything to try forcing it to produce a SB in advanced area, but it only produces BATS, then only BS, then doesn't produce ANY bases! Please tell me that was corrected...

Title: Re: Done
Post by: FireSoul on March 20, 2003, 04:30:23 pm

73 items fixed wasn't enough?

-- Luc

Title: Re: Done
Post by: Carrie on March 21, 2003, 04:49:58 am

Hmm... That's interesting...

I make one mod in my economy file, and click 'start campaign' on the new OP patch (patched from 2.5.0.0 to current), and it does a CTD every time.

All I changed was minimum bid factor... should that be killing my campaign?

Then I set it back to 6, and its still crashing to desktop after. No other modifications, than the date of change the economy.gf.

Hrm.

Code:


STARFLEETOP caused an invalid page fault in 
module STARFLEETOP.EXE at 0167:006f46d8,
Registers:
EAX=00000000 CS=0167 EIP=006f46d8 EFLGS=00210246
EBX=00000000 SS=016f ESP=00ebfc74 EBP=053ae600
ECX=00000000 DS=016f DSI=05335708 FS=19a7
EDX=05335708 ES=016f EDI=0545110c GS=0000
Bytes at CS:EIP:
89 1c 88 89 5f 2c 89 5f 28 8b 06 3b c3 74 74 8a
Stack Dump:
053ae5fc 053ae600 053ae600 00000000 00000001
05335708 00ebfd38 0078b2c8 00000000 00702078
00000001 053ae5fc 00ebfd88 00000000 053ae5fc
00000001

Maybe its just my current install. I reinstalled Win98SE again, after it was wiggy before. It started up right once, when I copied all the files in direct from 'originals', then crashed once again when I touched the slighest thing in economy.

If it isn't just me, that's bad for OP D2 servers everywhere...

*renames the backup folder for the originals to Singleplayer, and puts it up, naming the one with the only modified file PASTED BACK IN to the original (and it still crashed)*

Worked fine after doing that. Essentially, after ALL the ORIGINAL COPIED files, with modified listings in 2001... work.

Title: Re: Done
Post by: Carrie on March 21, 2003, 05:38:12 am

Someone flog me. I thjink I found out what it is.

I set them all Archive again, and it worked just fine. rofl. Is it really that picky about that flag?

*tries to remember her .gf modding*

For economy.gf, it should automatically produce a starbase if the chance to build is 1.00, right? Or is it inverted?

Title: Re: Done
Post by: GT-Keravnos on March 21, 2003, 06:40:53 am

That is FANTASTIC news. Great job guys!!!!!!

Title: Re: Done
Post by: 3dot14 on March 21, 2003, 04:31:30 pm

Quote:

*tries to remember her .gf modding*

For economy.gf, it should automatically produce a starbase if the chance to build is 1.00, right? Or is it inverted?

http://www3.telus.net/NuclearWessels/sfc/mods.html#5.1

it's MORE LIKELY to be built when its close to Zero. Higher the number, LESS LIKELY to be built

Title: Re: Done
Post by: Carrie on March 21, 2003, 05:52:44 pm

Okay, yeah, I'm awake. Anyone having era problems in the new patch? I started a single player campaigni (one of the NW/firesoul mods) and couldn't get it out of Early era 'cept by saying 1 turn per year.

Wonder if its just my install...

Title: OP Patch Status?
Post by: DarkMaster on January 20, 2003, 01:46:38 pm

Any news at all? I realize I'm being so very impatient, after all it's ONLY been a year+...some word on, like, APPROXIMATELY when we will be seeing something?

Short of this, how about releasing the ported EAW fixes as a separate patch? Something is better than nothing.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: EmeraldEdge on January 20, 2003, 01:56:59 pm

Actually not quite a year yet still. I believed the patch had been released sometime in early February last year but in checking the old forum announcements, it was actually Jan. 28.

That having been said, any news on what's going on with OP is way overdue. Anyone who says your being impatient is out of line, imho. OP people have been left in the dust since release, especially those who play D2. These people deserve some answers, (real ones, not the traditional mouth service to appease for a bit but no help ever actually materializes) as well as some action. Taldren should be thanking their lucky stars they have as many supporters as they still have, which is nowhere near the number they used to have back at SFC2 release. You'd think they'd be tryin' to do anything they can to save them. Silence usually means nothing's gonna happen anytime soon, so, Oh well.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on January 20, 2003, 03:59:43 pm

Quote:

Silence usually means nothing's gonna happen anytime soon, so, Oh well.

.......

-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Julin Eurthyr on January 20, 2003, 04:57:32 pm

The last I heard was that Articfire (of ye EAW D2 server fame) has been given the source code for OP and is (slowly) in the act of patching it.

He posted in the D2 forum looking for a bug list. Here's his original (mid-november) post on the subject. Haven't heard a word since...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on January 25, 2003, 07:03:02 pm

Bump...back to the top where it belongs. Silence is NOT going to make this kind of thread go away. Darkmaster's question
deserves an answer. It's already known that the EAW fixes have been ported over. I have not seen one valid reason for not releasing a patch version for OP with these fixes. It seems in Articfire's last post that the patch will be delayed for months, bogged down with all the D2 fixes. Those who do not need D2 fixes should have access to a patch
with just the EAW fixes.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: LongTooth on January 25, 2003, 07:24:24 pm

To be honest it would be pointless to make 2 types of pacthes for OP
It would take twice as long as to make one pacth

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on January 25, 2003, 07:54:52 pm

soon...no joke guys. From what I gather it could be within a month so hang in there.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on January 25, 2003, 09:31:10 pm

Including D2 patches?

I want to give OP to a couple of people but not until the D2 is ready otherwise they will lose interest.

Quote:

soon...no joke guys. From what I gather it could be within a month so hang in there.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on January 26, 2003, 12:13:18 pm

Quote:

To be honest it would be pointless to make 2 types of pacthes for OP
It would take twice as long as to make one pacth

To me its been "pointless" to wait for D2 fixes that some of have no need of. Different peolple,different needs,that's the point. Eaw fixes were ported over shortly after that patch was released. It seems that making just one patch is the thing that
takes twice as long. If ToastyO is right, there's no need to debate the issue much longer. Hopefully the patch will satisfy everyone's needs.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on January 26, 2003, 09:47:03 pm

I've asked Dave about what we can and cannot tell you about the OP patch,so maybe you'll get a better answer to some of the questions next week.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Rod O'neal on January 28, 2003, 09:22:37 am

Bump! I'd sure like to know too. If it's still gonna be a while then I think releasing the EAW port is a good idea imo.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on January 28, 2003, 12:08:10 pm

"soon" is the word of the day. Could be in a week...could be in a month...but it's coming.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: 3dot14 on January 28, 2003, 01:27:48 pm

Quote:

So is the end of the world, I saw some guy with a sign the other day that said so.

LMAO!!:D

That's a good one.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TalonClaw on January 28, 2003, 01:54:08 pm

We are closer than we were last Christmas

But seriously, it's closer than the end of the world

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on January 28, 2003, 02:48:24 pm

Really.
.. No tester is allowed to say when things are going to happen, often because they themselves may not know.

However, as testers, they might have more information (which they can't reallly share)..
.. so take it like this:

The testers can't tell the general public. Taldren probably can't either.

-- Luc
FireSoul

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: TheSatyr on January 28, 2003, 04:12:59 pm

I don't care for sacastic attitudes when I attempt to give what little info I can out...so no more info of any kind from me on any patches in the GF from here on out.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: 3dot14 on January 28, 2003, 09:20:49 pm

tsk tsk. Where is your sense of humor?

Besides, your "official word" from Dave is even more vague than Toasty0's original estimation. It's not like you just declassified the missile technologies (I was gonna say rocket science, but that's so last century)

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on January 29, 2003, 05:58:16 am

Quote:

tsk tsk. Where is your sense of humor?

Besides, your "official word" from Dave is even more vague than Toasty0's original estimation. It's not like you just declassified the missile technologies (I was gonna say rocket science, but that's so last century)

Yeah, like almost retro rocket even

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on January 29, 2003, 06:01:25 am

Quote:

So is the end of the world, I saw some guy with a sign the other day that said so.

Dah-mut, who let the game programmers out for a walk again? Erik, you promised no more unsupervised walks for the staff.

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Gamester on January 29, 2003, 09:49:02 am

I really don't understand what the big secret is. We have been allowed to mention general information about all the other patches we have worked on before. I distinctly remember when we were working on previous patches being given free reign to let people know what (in general) the patch addressed. I see no problems with stating a couple of things, and judging by past experience (and lack of response from Taldren employees when queried about it), I do not see Dave or Taldren in general having a problem with it either. So here is the *GENERAL* information about the patch we are testing for OP:

1) We are testing a release candidate patch - that means barring any show stoppers, it will show up in the very near future.

2) The patch pretty much catches up OP to EAW, plus fixes many OP specific issues (such as the mauler being destroyable)

3) The # of allowable ships per class has been increased to allow more ship mods (FireSoul is ecstatic)

and last but not least. . .

4) This patch will NOT include the D2 fixes at this time - that is being worked on seperately. The D2 is a complicated beast, and it is better not to have everyone suffer because of the long time it will take to get it fixed. Better to have the LAN and Gamespy and Single Player fixes released as they are basically done (and it is 3/4ths of the game at any rate).

I cannot tell you what exactly is fixed in the patch - nor can I even begin to speculate on when the D2 stuff is going to be patched. I DO know that the D2 stuff is GOING TO BE fixed, but it will be a while. IMHO, this is the best approach to the patch, because it fixes all the parts of the game except the D2 (which as I said is being worked on - it's a very complicated issue, much more so than was the case with EAW's) thus allowing the most people to enjoy the game now as opposed to everyone being completely bent having to wait for the D2 fixes to be implemented as well.

This should satisfy everyone's curiosity about the patch, alleviate (many) tempers, and generally let people know that WE ARE WORKING ON IT.

Thank you,

Gamester
Outer Circle Member (back when there WERE Circles, that is) and OP lover.

PS - If anyone disagrees with my assessment of the difficulty in patching OP's D2, please note that it is MY ASSESSMENT, not Taldren's nor any other tester's. So if you feel the need to flame me about my opinion on the subject, at least direct it to the appropriate party, that being me.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on January 29, 2003, 07:28:04 pm

A big thanks to Gamester! At last someone speaking logically and intelligently about the OP patch. It makes so much more sense to release a patch like this and then work on the next stage once these fixes are in place. I think its ludicrous to withhold information like this from the people that play and support these games. Even speaking in general terms there is more information in Gamester's post than we've heard from "official"sources. That too should be fixed....

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: MagnumMan on January 29, 2003, 08:54:43 pm

In all likelihood the OP Dyna fixes will only affect the OP Dyna, and the OP client should work with either Dyna (the one with bugs, re-released with a new version number, or the one with bug fixes; which is just a build number bump).

In other words, the release of the OP patch and an updates OP Dyna with bug fixes are independent events.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on January 29, 2003, 09:05:01 pm

Thanks for the update.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on February 08, 2003, 11:01:35 pm

Page 15 !..... not for such a critical topic. Needs to be upfront in hopes of periodic updates.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on February 14, 2003, 02:52:23 am

I agree!

So... Bumpity bump.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on February 16, 2003, 03:50:51 pm

Bumping again, because OP (along with EAW) is still important to those of us with older computers

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Primus2003 on February 16, 2003, 05:00:49 pm

I hope that the patch comes out soon. Seems to have been very feew updates to this game. I am in agreement that those with older computers care for OP and EAW. Though my computer is a couple of years old now. I also enjoyed that era of ships. I would really like to see them doing all generations as well I grew up with the movies. In the meantime hope to see this new patch soon.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on February 17, 2003, 10:31:36 am

Y'know, I don't reaaaaly want to voice this question, but I guess somebody's gotta say it...

Is patching for OP and EAW being held up because of more Taldren/Activision politics going on? Something like Activision wanting SFC3's (the title they're making money on) patch(s) running before OP and EAW to encourage sales or something wierd like that?

I'm guessing no, since Taldren can release EAW and OP patches with impunity, but with all the Taldren confessionals and Activision Public Relations Damage Control going on in the forums lately, one really begins to wonder... O_o

Don't flame me please, it was just a question, =)

Holocat.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Chris Jones on February 17, 2003, 02:15:41 pm

Quote:

3) The # of allowable ships per class has been increased to allow more ship mods (FireSoul is ecstatic)

Thank you,

Gamester
Outer Circle Member (back when there WERE Circles, that is) and OP lover.

WOWSERS AND WAY KOOL!

how high will it go?

numbers, please!

Thanks,

Chris

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: WindFire on February 17, 2003, 04:46:57 pm

Gamester,

Thanks for the information.

WindFire

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Pestalence on February 17, 2003, 05:10:41 pm

Quote:

Y'know, I don't reaaaaly want to voice this question, but I guess somebody's gotta say it...

Is patching for OP and EAW being held up because of more Taldren/Activision politics going on? Something like Activision wanting SFC3's (the title they're making money on) patch(s) running before OP and EAW to encourage sales or something wierd like that?

I'm guessing no, since Taldren can release EAW and OP patches with impunity, but with all the Taldren confessionals and Activision Public Relations Damage Control going on in the forums lately, one really begins to wonder... O_o

Don't flame me please, it was just a question, =)

Holocat.

No, the patching progress is being held up because Taldren is working on the patch (OP) in their spare time outside of Black 9 (Black 9 has priority right now, SFC 3 patch is at Activision).. EAW is a finished product.. no more support for that game as stated several months ago. EAW patch 2036 is the last patch.

this upcoming 2 patches for OP will most probably the final patches for the game as well.

OP patches and EAW patches is solely at the discression of Taldren.. only the SFC 3 patch is in ATVI's hands...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on February 17, 2003, 06:26:21 pm

Quote:

Quote:

3) The # of allowable ships per class has been increased to allow more ship mods (FireSoul is ecstatic)

Thank you,

Gamester
Outer Circle Member (back when there WERE Circles, that is) and OP lover.

WOWSERS AND WAY KOOL!

how high will it go?

numbers, please!

Thanks,

Chris

Oh.
64 -> 128. Doubled.
-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on February 19, 2003, 02:26:21 am

Given that you've stated that your new version of the shiplist will be released post patch, you gonna add all those ships you were forced to take out in your OP+ readme on you site?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on February 19, 2003, 02:44:14 am

Oh, all that is already done.
Really.

.. the next shiplist *IS* ready. .. but there's no point releasing it since only the testers can use it.

-- Luc
FireSoul

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on February 20, 2003, 07:59:45 pm

Bump... so it doesn't get lost. Besides, I'm sick of all the whining about an SFC3 patch. The game's only been around three months. Op players have been waiting much longer.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Qob'nuH on February 22, 2003, 04:34:29 pm

Apparently needs a bump every couple of days. Over a thousand views...someone else must be interested too.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on February 22, 2003, 07:35:24 pm

Quote:

Apparently needs a bump every couple of days. Over a thousand views...someone else must be interested too.

There's really only ten people looking at this thread every two hours!

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Akhilles on February 22, 2003, 08:39:09 pm

Quote:

Apparently needs a bump every couple of days. Over a thousand views...someone else must be interested too.

Not me, I just like reading the controversial threads, which happen to entail a "patch" of some sort.

(I lie, I'm watching for the patch as well)

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Holocat on February 23, 2003, 12:43:01 am

I think that might be me, updating this page every five minutes.

Apparently more quiet (if not too much more patient) than the kids on SFC3, which should be a general relief,

Holocat.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: IndyShark on February 26, 2003, 11:46:52 am

Any update on the patch we have REALLY been waiting for? (The OP patch of course!)

Any news would be welcome and appreciated!

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Corbomite on February 26, 2003, 11:50:21 am

At this point, I'd bet the first Black 9 patch will be out before the last OP patch.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on February 26, 2003, 12:24:21 pm

OP patch fixing IS active....trying to squash a pesky last bugger...

Expect to see a patch including all the EAW fixes.....

Then sometime later.....another containing whatever OPDV fixes AF comes up with.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on February 27, 2003, 01:46:42 pm

Random question. Have the hex interactions between pirates and regular orgs been fixed in the new patch? I'd like to seize and /hold/ sectors, even in single player, without having it go neutral again cause of what cartels are doing. Or is that for the dyna patch?

At least please tell me that the "no starbases in late/advanced" bug has been fixed?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 27, 2003, 05:41:15 pm

Hex interactions haven't, and won't, be fixed in the upcoming OP patch, because they are D2 issues. All D2 work has been handed off to ArticFire, who is not ready to release any fixes.

At least that's the last I heard.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on February 28, 2003, 12:54:51 am

Please don't forget about the request to have a look at the D2 problem with viewing the Cartel DV's in the first patch (if it is a simple fix of course).

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Toasty0 on February 28, 2003, 01:01:14 am

Quote:

Hex interactions haven't, and won't, be fixed in the upcoming OP patch, because they are D2 issues. All D2 work has been handed off to ArticFire, who is not ready to release any fixes.

At least that's the last I heard.

I heard, sadly, that Articfire was swallowed whole by a polar bear while on a beer run...

Best,
Jerry

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Pestalence on February 28, 2003, 01:08:57 am

Quote:

Please don't forget about the request to have a look at the D2 problem with viewing the Cartel DV's in the first patch (if it is a simple fix of course).

Cartel DV's are a D2 issue being delt with by ArtifcFire and will not be in the first atch...

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Khalee on February 28, 2003, 01:09:48 am

Im late in jumping in on this but I hope the supply bug has been fixed or will be.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Cleaven on February 28, 2003, 02:33:54 am

Quote:

Quote:

Please don't forget about the request to have a look at the D2 problem with viewing the Cartel DV's in the first patch (if it is a simple fix of course).

Cartel DV's are a D2 issue being delt with by ArtifcFire and will not be in the first atch...

http://208.57.228.4/ubbthreads/showflat.php?Cat=&Board=UBB1&Number=17553&Forum=UBB1&Words=Cartel%20DV&Match=Entire%20Phrase&Searchpage=0&Limit=25&Old=3months&Main=16825&Search=true#Post17553

I live in hope.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on February 28, 2003, 02:34:08 am

Quote:

Quote:

Hex interactions haven't, and won't, be fixed in the upcoming OP patch, because they are D2 issues. All D2 work has been handed off to ArticFire, who is not ready to release any fixes.

At least that's the last I heard.

I heard, sadly, that Articfire was swallowed whole by a polar bear while on a beer run...

Best,
Jerry

Ouch! That's not good. Oh well. I suppose I can live with fighting for my hexes. Damned pirates. There is a way in some ini or .gf file to disable any org you don't want to exist, right? I can shut them off there, if someone reminds me what it is.

I'm more interested to hear that I can buy SBs in late/advanced, so I can still keep things when I do shut the pirates off.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: GT-Keravnos on February 28, 2003, 07:22:39 am

Bump,

Because---we care enough for the game and have
Uber-hopes --- that in the end we will emerge victorious, therefore we
Must--- against all hopes, biases and fears, trust the Testers and Taldren to do a fine job. So, Peace Out and
Play out!

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 07:54:57 am

Carrie, you could remove pirate cartels through various modifications, but you can't take out the pirate map layer. In fact, it seems to do more harm when the pirate map is neutral than when it is populated.

Whoever brought up the supply issue -- what exactly are you referring to? I'm just curious. Personally, I'd like to see spare parts available in D2 go by the ship specs and not be limited to just 8 -- EAW was fixed in this way, so why isn't OP?

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Mog on February 28, 2003, 08:16:31 am

Doug, the spare parts above 8 is simply crap. It penalises low crunch races - ie saber dancers; when you are fighting say a CVA with a BCH, and that CVA has 40 spare parts, it means the CVA can just repair its engines and leave, even though you may have pounded it to high heaven (been there, done that, got the t-shirt). I'd rather OP stick to 8 then go to the excessive and ridiculous amounts that appeared in EAW.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on February 28, 2003, 08:21:06 am

Quote:

Carrie, you could remove pirate cartels through various modifications, but you can't take out the pirate map layer. In fact, it seems to do more harm when the pirate map is neutral than when it is populated.

.. what does it do with neutral only hexes? (no economy)
-- Luc

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: Carrie on February 28, 2003, 09:09:20 am

Quote:

Carrie, you could remove pirate cartels through various modifications, but you can't take out the pirate map layer. In fact, it seems to do more harm when the pirate map is neutral than when it is populated.

Hrm... Would it help if I stuck all the cartels allied to each other and to all the main races (or just the one being played)? I'm wondering now if that might not be able to fool the system into letting me keep hexes I take....

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 09:15:27 am

Moggy, thanks for the insight. I have to admit I haven't played EAW D2 much since the parts were "fixed." On the other hand, shouldn't a larger ship be able to repair more systems, having more capacity for repair crews and parts? Have any D2 campaigns used high-priced repair parts, so it would be costly to fly around with 20 spare parts, making pilots choose between saving prestige for new ships or spending it to keep their current one in top shape during a battle? I'd at least like the option for server admins to be able to set the parts to full or the 8-part limit. After all, 8 is pretty arbitrary, no? I mean, an FF that can only get up to 4 parts is in the same situation you describe vs. a CL that can carry 8.

FS, making the pirate layer neutral only causes empires to hurt their own defense values when running successful missions in their own hexes. Since political settings don't allow for neutral to be treated differently on the cartel map vs. the empire map, the settings tweaks available are limited. Even so, if you set neutral as allied to all empires, having the neutral cartel layer creates problems when enemies engage each other on the empire map -- if you win, you are hurting the enemy hex DV, but also "winning" for the neutral cartel underneath. It gets really confusing, because the DV effects depend upon not only the mission results and politics, but also the DV status of the cartel layer, which is invisible.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: jdmckinney on February 28, 2003, 09:19:27 am

Carrie, feel free to try everything you can think of. I can only tell you what testing results I came up with in the past. If a cartel is allied to two opposing empires, in some cases it seemed as though a win for one side hurt their enemy, but also helped their allied cartel, resulting in a net change of zero. Again, combinations of settings, the missions used, and the cartel layer DV status could change things, but in the end, it is very unreliable.

We do need more people to test their ideas on this. Even if I didn't find success with some of these methods, it doesn't mean you or someone else won't find a new wrinkle that fixes some of the problems.

Good luck.

Title: Re: OP Patch Status?
Post by: FireSoul on February 28, 2003, 09:27:59 am

Quote:

Quote:

Carrie, you could remove pirate cartels through various modifications, but you can't take out the pirate map layer. In fact, it seems to do more harm when the pirate map is neutral than when it is populated.

Hrm... Would it help if I stuck all the cartels allied to each other and to all the main races (or just the one being played)? I'm wondering now if that might not be able to fool the system into letting me keep hexes I take....

.. maybe only 1 cartel for that layer, all over the map, allied to everyone?
-- Luc