Post by: Age on June 17, 2004, 08:17:01 pm
Yes
No
See Results
Post by: E_Look on June 17, 2004, 08:55:11 pm
Albert already told us!
Post by: jimmi7769 on June 17, 2004, 10:04:15 pm
Quote:
Age, how can you ask??
Albert already told us!
Yes but how many other set in stone facts have changed over the years.
Post by: Age on June 17, 2004, 10:45:30 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Johanobesus on June 18, 2004, 12:10:35 am
And your poll seems to be messed up.
Post by: manitoba on June 18, 2004, 12:28:54 am
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 12:58:47 am
Post by: Windfox on June 18, 2004, 01:54:09 am
Well, there is one possible way to go FTL that fits perfectly with modern physics from what I've read, if we knew how to do it.
When a photon of light travels, it virtually splits into a electron and positiron, or some other simaler particle pair, which then annihlate each other reforming the original photon.This is the reason light travels at the speed it does, because of the virtual particles slowign it down. Now one effect that has been observed(it was covered in an Alternate View by Dr John G Cramer in Analog.. don't remember the issue offhand but it was late 80s or early 90s I belive) is termed teh casmir effect. The idea is to put two plates close enough together, it impedes the formation of the virtual particles, as their path would cause them to hit the plates. Since the photon spends less time as virtual particles, any light travelling through there actually speeds up a minute amount! Thus in this small area, the speed of light is raised by a minute amount. If the plates were uniformally smooth(as in perhaps cosmic string or cosmic walls) and placed close enough together, you might could get significant increases in speed. Now comes the sci-fi part: create a field that surpresses virtual particle formation in the same manner. Now place a ship within it, and set the field to move wiht the ship. Voila! FTL drive! The ship can accellerate to large velocities within the bubble, and while to the universe outside the bubble it'd be FTL, the ship technically never breaks the lightspeed barrier!
Then of course, there's also the idea that a loop around a cosmic string totals less than 360 degrees... I'm sure there's somethign someone can do with that. (And didn't Vonda McIntyre write a series of books about that idea actually? o.O)
Post by: Age on June 18, 2004, 02:32:24 am
I saw this in Dom Wars and Near Distant Future Forum .StarFleet Gaming Directory.I decided to do the same here and you should see what they are saying.
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 11:05:16 am
By the way, ions are kind of small and unless you blow out a humongous amount all at once (e.g., a bomb) you don't get much force. It works only in space, as it's virtually a vacuum and there isn't much around the system to absorb (drag) the reaction force to the tiny li'l ion expelled out. Over time, say months, the system will accelerate to much larger speeds, but initially, boy, will it be slow!
Double by the way: nice to see your work in these forums!
Post by: IKV Nemesis D7L on June 18, 2004, 07:13:35 pm
Post by: Age on June 18, 2004, 07:21:27 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Strat on June 18, 2004, 07:41:12 pm
Now, (I'm not sure), but I think they found that this connection is almost instantanious over light years of distance, and that means the the force binding them is traveling faster then light.
It is this property that is also the fundamentals of Quantum Teleportation, which is making progress technilogically, but for the application of FTL travel, it's this connection bettwen particles that exists over such a distance, and allows them to copy one another with such speed; the force having the information of one must travel FTL to the other particle for it to copy the origional if they are light years apart.
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 09:28:49 pm
Ah, but some of you guys are talking about bending or folding space to connect two spatial points. We don't even know what "space" is in its ultimate or basic nature, or if it even has any "handles" we can grab do such things. When some physicists say that highly massive objects can "warp" or "curve" space, it's another way of expressing that such objects have also a correspondingly humongous gravity, pulling things towards it along paths describable by known mathematical equations. Whether space surrounding the large object is "warped" or the smaller object is attracted to it according to Newtonian (or other models) descriptions of gravity, the observed effects are the same- six of one, half dozen of the other; they are different ways of saying the same exact thing.
Consider this effect: two giant scissor blades are closing toward each other at the speed of light. But for such motions, the rate at which the gap closes is always faster than that of each of the blades. So then, the gap closes at a rate faster than the speed of light! BUT: 1) this is merely an illusion and 2) even if it weren't it's an observation; i.e., information, or data! There is no known way in science and technology we can even dream of making (large) material move even close to the speed of light.
(But this does not mean we can't enjoy Star Trek, Star Wars, the SFC series, etc.)
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:30:00 pm
there are means to harness the ambient virtual flux to create macroscopic worm holes. The French particle accelerator is powerful enough to reach the lower theoretical power limit to produce synthetic black holes. The Cassimir effectcan then be used to enlarge one end. directing the other end to someplace useful is the biggest challenge to this method. Energy can be euivelant and mass can warp or compress space. Theoretically then warp could be achieved by several different approaches; higggs bosons, gravitons, weak nuclear forces in superheavy synthetic nuclei, etc.
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:32:20 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:37:34 pm
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 10:09:17 pm
When you start talking of frame dragging and the Cassimir effect, well, they sound more like brainstorming terms than documented and repeatable phenomena. Bear in mind that much of what is said about cosmology/astrophysics often is just interpretation of one camp or the other's over data gleaned from telescopes, detectors, and the like- impressions of things incredibly far away filtered through the space between it and that between our ears, not forgetting that before that, it had to fight through our atmosphere, too.
Please don't think I'm trying to quash dreams! I'd love to see FTL travel myself! It's just that mainstream science so far has no provision for much of this!
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 10:26:04 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 10:29:46 pm
Post by: Windfox on June 18, 2004, 10:58:15 pm
http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw43.html
Post by: IKV Nemesis D7L on June 18, 2004, 11:06:47 pm
A link about "Gravity Probe B"
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 11:21:41 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 11:24:23 pm
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 11:33:53 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 12:06:57 am
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 12:13:52 am
Post by: Cleaven on June 19, 2004, 02:51:11 am
Otherwise the answer right now is No.
Post by: Warden on June 19, 2004, 03:53:25 am
Quote:
At the request of Age, link to STCD Unity-DW-NDF forum on topic http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2082
My opinion on this is simple, it will take a complete rethink of current physics, discrediting of most of Einstein?s and others theories and then the $$$$$$ to make it work.
Time frame for this, I say minimum of at least 50 years before a design on paper, then another 50-60 years to get it to work.
BTW is anyone watching the births register in America for a "Zefram Cochrane" by any chance? Maybe a "Lily Sloane"
Post by: Age on June 19, 2004, 02:06:32 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 09:23:45 pm
Post by: manitoba on June 20, 2004, 02:22:51 am
Post by: Age on June 17, 2004, 08:17:01 pm
Yes
No
See Results
Post by: E_Look on June 17, 2004, 08:55:11 pm
Albert already told us!
Post by: jimmi7769 on June 17, 2004, 10:04:15 pm
Quote:
Age, how can you ask??
Albert already told us!
Yes but how many other set in stone facts have changed over the years.
Post by: Age on June 17, 2004, 10:45:30 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Johanobesus on June 18, 2004, 12:10:35 am
And your poll seems to be messed up.
Post by: manitoba on June 18, 2004, 12:28:54 am
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 12:58:47 am
Post by: Windfox on June 18, 2004, 01:54:09 am
Well, there is one possible way to go FTL that fits perfectly with modern physics from what I've read, if we knew how to do it.
When a photon of light travels, it virtually splits into a electron and positiron, or some other simaler particle pair, which then annihlate each other reforming the original photon.This is the reason light travels at the speed it does, because of the virtual particles slowign it down. Now one effect that has been observed(it was covered in an Alternate View by Dr John G Cramer in Analog.. don't remember the issue offhand but it was late 80s or early 90s I belive) is termed teh casmir effect. The idea is to put two plates close enough together, it impedes the formation of the virtual particles, as their path would cause them to hit the plates. Since the photon spends less time as virtual particles, any light travelling through there actually speeds up a minute amount! Thus in this small area, the speed of light is raised by a minute amount. If the plates were uniformally smooth(as in perhaps cosmic string or cosmic walls) and placed close enough together, you might could get significant increases in speed. Now comes the sci-fi part: create a field that surpresses virtual particle formation in the same manner. Now place a ship within it, and set the field to move wiht the ship. Voila! FTL drive! The ship can accellerate to large velocities within the bubble, and while to the universe outside the bubble it'd be FTL, the ship technically never breaks the lightspeed barrier!
Then of course, there's also the idea that a loop around a cosmic string totals less than 360 degrees... I'm sure there's somethign someone can do with that. (And didn't Vonda McIntyre write a series of books about that idea actually? o.O)
Post by: Age on June 18, 2004, 02:32:24 am
I saw this in Dom Wars and Near Distant Future Forum .StarFleet Gaming Directory.I decided to do the same here and you should see what they are saying.
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 11:05:16 am
By the way, ions are kind of small and unless you blow out a humongous amount all at once (e.g., a bomb) you don't get much force. It works only in space, as it's virtually a vacuum and there isn't much around the system to absorb (drag) the reaction force to the tiny li'l ion expelled out. Over time, say months, the system will accelerate to much larger speeds, but initially, boy, will it be slow!
Double by the way: nice to see your work in these forums!
Post by: IKV Nemesis D7L on June 18, 2004, 07:13:35 pm
Post by: Age on June 18, 2004, 07:21:27 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Strat on June 18, 2004, 07:41:12 pm
Now, (I'm not sure), but I think they found that this connection is almost instantanious over light years of distance, and that means the the force binding them is traveling faster then light.
It is this property that is also the fundamentals of Quantum Teleportation, which is making progress technilogically, but for the application of FTL travel, it's this connection bettwen particles that exists over such a distance, and allows them to copy one another with such speed; the force having the information of one must travel FTL to the other particle for it to copy the origional if they are light years apart.
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 09:28:49 pm
Ah, but some of you guys are talking about bending or folding space to connect two spatial points. We don't even know what "space" is in its ultimate or basic nature, or if it even has any "handles" we can grab do such things. When some physicists say that highly massive objects can "warp" or "curve" space, it's another way of expressing that such objects have also a correspondingly humongous gravity, pulling things towards it along paths describable by known mathematical equations. Whether space surrounding the large object is "warped" or the smaller object is attracted to it according to Newtonian (or other models) descriptions of gravity, the observed effects are the same- six of one, half dozen of the other; they are different ways of saying the same exact thing.
Consider this effect: two giant scissor blades are closing toward each other at the speed of light. But for such motions, the rate at which the gap closes is always faster than that of each of the blades. So then, the gap closes at a rate faster than the speed of light! BUT: 1) this is merely an illusion and 2) even if it weren't it's an observation; i.e., information, or data! There is no known way in science and technology we can even dream of making (large) material move even close to the speed of light.
(But this does not mean we can't enjoy Star Trek, Star Wars, the SFC series, etc.)
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:30:00 pm
there are means to harness the ambient virtual flux to create macroscopic worm holes. The French particle accelerator is powerful enough to reach the lower theoretical power limit to produce synthetic black holes. The Cassimir effectcan then be used to enlarge one end. directing the other end to someplace useful is the biggest challenge to this method. Energy can be euivelant and mass can warp or compress space. Theoretically then warp could be achieved by several different approaches; higggs bosons, gravitons, weak nuclear forces in superheavy synthetic nuclei, etc.
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:32:20 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 09:37:34 pm
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 10:09:17 pm
When you start talking of frame dragging and the Cassimir effect, well, they sound more like brainstorming terms than documented and repeatable phenomena. Bear in mind that much of what is said about cosmology/astrophysics often is just interpretation of one camp or the other's over data gleaned from telescopes, detectors, and the like- impressions of things incredibly far away filtered through the space between it and that between our ears, not forgetting that before that, it had to fight through our atmosphere, too.
Please don't think I'm trying to quash dreams! I'd love to see FTL travel myself! It's just that mainstream science so far has no provision for much of this!
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 10:26:04 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 10:29:46 pm
Post by: Windfox on June 18, 2004, 10:58:15 pm
http://www.npl.washington.edu/AV/altvw43.html
Post by: IKV Nemesis D7L on June 18, 2004, 11:06:47 pm
A link about "Gravity Probe B"
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 11:21:41 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 18, 2004, 11:24:23 pm
Post by: E_Look on June 18, 2004, 11:33:53 pm
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 12:06:57 am
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 12:13:52 am
Post by: Cleaven on June 19, 2004, 02:51:11 am
Otherwise the answer right now is No.
Post by: Warden on June 19, 2004, 03:53:25 am
Quote:
At the request of Age, link to STCD Unity-DW-NDF forum on topic http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2082
My opinion on this is simple, it will take a complete rethink of current physics, discrediting of most of Einstein?s and others theories and then the $$$$$$ to make it work.
Time frame for this, I say minimum of at least 50 years before a design on paper, then another 50-60 years to get it to work.
BTW is anyone watching the births register in America for a "Zefram Cochrane" by any chance? Maybe a "Lily Sloane"
Post by: Age on June 19, 2004, 02:06:32 pm
Sig is by Pestalence
Post by: Stormbringer on June 19, 2004, 09:23:45 pm
Post by: manitoba on June 20, 2004, 02:22:51 am
Post by: Age on June 27, 2004, 05:57:46 am