Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 11:30:04 am
I've been watching all the DS9's again and I really think that the phasers in SFC3 (pulse) are just too damn weak. The pulse phasers are supposed to be a weapon designed for use agasint the borg, but when ever I play against a borg, I would much rather have a normal phaser as they always do WAY more damage. I know it would be impossible to make a truely cannon game, but I think the the Pulse Phasers should be bumped up to be REALLY powerfull, like they are on the show!
Post by: Firestorm on March 08, 2003, 12:01:18 pm
Post by: Arcilte on March 08, 2003, 01:28:38 pm
Post by: Bossman on March 08, 2003, 01:46:03 pm
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 02:20:30 pm
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 08, 2003, 02:21:40 pm
Make them the most massive primary
Make the Defiant as expensive as a nebula, but with the mass to still hold its cannon cannons.
Alexander
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on March 08, 2003, 02:58:46 pm
IIRC,
Damage degrades more quickly over range.
they have been moved from a 1-6 chance to a 1-10 chance of passing thru the shields.
So if you have not already dloaded the beta patch you wont be happy.
Have a nice day!
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 03:37:57 pm
Great thanks ALOT TALDREN! Did you ever even watch an episode of DS9, if not then I suggest you do and release a patch that makes pulse phasers the Dogs ********* and if you have then you need to have your heads examined!
Post by: Magnum357 on March 08, 2003, 04:33:50 pm
Whats with all the complaining? If you want to make Pulse Phasers more powerful, just edit the data files. You do realize you can edit some of the data for weapons in the game right?
Post by: Aldaron on March 08, 2003, 04:42:20 pm
Quote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
Great thanks ALOT TALDREN! Did you ever even watch an episode of DS9, if not then I suggest you do and release a patch that makes pulse phasers the Dogs ********* and if you have then you need to have your heads examined!
Yeah let's make it more like the shows and to hell with game balance. :rolleyes:
Post by: MrCue on March 08, 2003, 04:51:00 pm
Lines 98-104 are the pulse phaser
Code:
[PrimaryItems\PULSE PHASER]
Description = "PULSE PHASER"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 275
Health = 30
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "F"
Change Damage to read 200. Voila 1 shot kill Pulse Phasers
Oh and Dont forget to backup the file before you change it. As it will stop you from playing online
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 04:55:11 pm
Quote:
Yeah let's make it more like the shows and to hell with game balance. :rolleyes:
No Aldaron all I was saying is that the pulse phasers should be WAY more powerfull than they are now. they are SUPPOSED to be more powerful than normal phasers, so why not make them stronger, rather than weaker, that was what I was saying.
And thanks for the info on how to edit the phasers!!!!!!
Post by: MrCue on March 08, 2003, 04:59:09 pm
Post by: TheBigCheese on March 08, 2003, 05:30:17 pm
Quote:
I don't care about the strength of the Pulse Phaser. I don't care about whether or not Pulse Phasers should be primary or heavy weapon. I just want the sound FX of the Pulse Phaser to actually sound like the one used in the DS9 S/FX and not like the sound that comes from a squeezed bottle of ketchup!
Pulse phaser sound mod
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBigCheese_CMBBsite/
many new canon sound effects and some other
http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/network/sfc3mods.htm
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 08, 2003, 05:57:32 pm
I dont think it should be made to debalance any more but seriously try using those pulse phashers effectively and you soon realise a far better alternative is the type X phaser or there abouts!
Post by: Pharoah on March 08, 2003, 07:11:19 pm
Pulse phasers too weak? Heh.
You must remember that there have always been differences between what you see in the TV shows (done for dramatic effect) and what you see in the SFC game series (done to make a (MOSTLY, ok, MOSTLY
) balanced game). In the TV show, a battle lasted a couple of minutes of screen time. In the game, a battle can (and should!) last 10, 20, 40 minutes or more.If the pulse phasers were any stronger, with no penalties of mass or cost, then the Federation would have a decisive advantage, wouldn't you say? Every Fed vessel would carry them, and be all the more powerful because of it.
How long before that caused a rankling sense of unfairness in those that play the other races? Not long after that, player counts for these races would drop as interest in fighting a losing battle drops, and servers become almost entirely Fed populated (a common condition that has started to change on some of the better servers as people branch out and explore options).
Is this what you want?
And, if you don't play online, then certainly you can edit the .gf files to increase the damage of pulse phasers to just about any level you wish (though I fail to see the enjoyment myself).
Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Nah, not likely.....;))
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 08, 2003, 07:21:41 pm
I may be drunk, but pulse phasers are sh*te usless weapons that only appaer to look damaging. Try blowing somthing up with just pulse phasers, it wont happen, you will get bored and quit.
Post by: sunspot42x on March 08, 2003, 07:46:26 pm
Handled correctly, this would pull them into line with what was seen in the series - pulse phasers mounted in a small but well-powered and presumably costly ship (the Defiant) - without throwing them out of balance with the other primaries in the game. It would also help to differentiate their behavior (and the tactics for using or defending against them).
Post by: KD4 on March 08, 2003, 08:59:48 pm
Quote:
Hmmm, certainly a.....singular....viewpoint there. A decidedly blue feel, don't you think?
Pulse phasers too weak? Heh.
You must remember that there have always been differences between what you see in the TV shows (done for dramatic effect) and what you see in the SFC game series (done to make a (MOSTLY, ok, MOSTLY
If the pulse phasers were any stronger, with no penalties of mass or cost, then the Federation would have a decisive advantage, wouldn't you say? Every Fed vessel would carry them, and be all the more powerful because of it.
How long before that caused a rankling sense of unfairness in those that play the other races? Not long after that, player counts for these races would drop as interest in fighting a losing battle drops, and servers become almost entirely Fed populated (a common condition that has started to change on some of the better servers as people branch out and explore options).
Is this what you want?
And, if you don't play online, then certainly you can edit the .gf files to increase the damage of pulse phasers to just about any level you wish (though I fail to see the enjoyment myself).
Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Nah, not likely.....;))
good post Pharoah. and how have you been?
Post by: Whiplash on March 08, 2003, 11:10:43 pm
Its too bad show writers don't have to play their story in game form before they submit it. Stuff would be way more balanced. Possibly more boring, but way more balanced.
I wonder if you based a sci-fi space opera off of a systematized game if it could be any good.
W.
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 12:59:49 am
Description = "PHASER XIIIS"
Cost = 1950
Mass = 450
Health = 55
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Description = "PULSE PHASER"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 275
Health = 30
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
The effectiveness of a weapon can be summarized through Cost/Damage Efficiency, Mass/Damage Efficiency and Energy/Damage Efficiency. In each of these categories, the smaller the number, the better.
The XIIIS has the following summary:
Cost/Damage Efficiency = 162.5
Mass/Damage Efficiency = 37.5
Energy/Damage Efficiency = 1
The Pulse Phaser has this summary:
Cost/Damage Efficiency = 156.25
Mass/Damage Efficiency = 34.38
Energy/Damage Efficiency = .75
The Pulse Phaser wins in all 3 Efficiency categories, most notably Energy/Damage Efficiency (a whopping 25% superior over it's much larger competition).
The Phaser XIIIS does more damage at 100% power, but a pulse phaser overpowered to 200% does just as much damage (at range 6 or less) AND has the ability to pierce shields, AND is almost half the weight.
The XIIIS has only a couple of advantages: longer range, and superior damage when overloaded. And look at all the disadvantages it has to take on to get those 2 advantages over the Pulse Phaser: heavier, costlier, no shield piercing, far less efficient, requires more energy.
You can conclude from all this that the Pulse Phaser is a very underappreciated weapon. 200% Power to this weapon gives you 12 points of damage to deal to your opponent (per shot, 1.2 points of that damage getting straight through the shields, on average). For the damage it does, it is incredibly light and efficient. The much-lauded Quantum Torpedo does only 13 damage at 100%, and is less energy efficient!
I think the reason behind the Pulse Phaser's bad press is due to the very wimpy sound effects it gets in the game, creating a psychological effect leading the player to believe they are far weaker than they really are. But if you look at the numbers, that just isn't the case!
So don't be afraid to use the Pulse Phasers, they are worth every PP you spend on them. Just remember to give them plenty of overload power, and you have one of the best weapons in the game!
Post by: Wiz33 on March 09, 2003, 03:17:34 am
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 09, 2003, 04:26:18 am
I dont have that sound effect problem though, 2 100 watt sub woofers and an Extigy sound card later and those pulse phasers dont sound too bad after all. I really will have to try over loading them fully and flying in at close range to check this out.....
..... just have to wonder though, why they never seem to do squat for me? Could be my lack of skill or just my lack of attention to detail.
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 05:43:12 am
Post by: Torque on March 09, 2003, 08:25:05 am
Quote:
Let's comare the Pulse Phaser with Starfleet's hardest-hitting Phaser, the XIIIS:
-----Interesting comparison. A Platform primary weapon and a CL weapon? FYI you cant mount a 13S on a ship.
As for energy overloading, Roflmao!
Ummm all you guys that call this a cheese ship, forget that cheese melts easily. Lets see you all load up all that energy with an eggshell of a hull and NO RANGE.
Bah hahaaha!
Cozy up to a tough hulled ship with those Pulse Primaries and see where that gets ya.
Your comparison while interesting, is not real world, imo.
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 09, 2003, 12:27:59 pm
Can you still play online if you install the sound modst like the atmosphere mod?
Alexander
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 10:39:26 pm
Quote:
-----Interesting comparison. A Platform primary weapon and a CL weapon? FYI you cant mount a 13S on a ship.
As for energy overloading, Roflmao!
The comparison was intentional, to exhibit the raw power of the Pulse Phaser. It compares favorably with a starbase weapon, and that is rather remarkable. Compare it with the XIIS, and it looks even better. Instead of providing a counter-analysis, you simply dismiss my numbers out of hand. Well, you would have to, since my numbers happen to be correct (compared with your perceptual fantasy).
As a Romulan player, I love it when Fed players discount this weapon, since it's one I don't relish going up against. So everybody please do me a favor and follow Torque's advice to avoid Pulse Phasers. Just avoid them at your own risk.
BTW, if you're worried about the so-called eggshell hull, the Defiant class is meant to be run at speeds of 50-60, using AV to good effect.
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 09, 2003, 11:57:39 pm
Alexander
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 11:30:04 am
I've been watching all the DS9's again and I really think that the phasers in SFC3 (pulse) are just too damn weak. The pulse phasers are supposed to be a weapon designed for use agasint the borg, but when ever I play against a borg, I would much rather have a normal phaser as they always do WAY more damage. I know it would be impossible to make a truely cannon game, but I think the the Pulse Phasers should be bumped up to be REALLY powerfull, like they are on the show!
Post by: Firestorm on March 08, 2003, 12:01:18 pm
Post by: Arcilte on March 08, 2003, 01:28:38 pm
Post by: Bossman on March 08, 2003, 01:46:03 pm
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 02:20:30 pm
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 08, 2003, 02:21:40 pm
Make them the most massive primary
Make the Defiant as expensive as a nebula, but with the mass to still hold its cannon cannons.
Alexander
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on March 08, 2003, 02:58:46 pm
IIRC,
Damage degrades more quickly over range.
they have been moved from a 1-6 chance to a 1-10 chance of passing thru the shields.
So if you have not already dloaded the beta patch you wont be happy.
Have a nice day!
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 03:37:57 pm
Great thanks ALOT TALDREN! Did you ever even watch an episode of DS9, if not then I suggest you do and release a patch that makes pulse phasers the Dogs ********* and if you have then you need to have your heads examined!
Post by: Magnum357 on March 08, 2003, 04:33:50 pm
Whats with all the complaining? If you want to make Pulse Phasers more powerful, just edit the data files. You do realize you can edit some of the data for weapons in the game right?
Post by: Aldaron on March 08, 2003, 04:42:20 pm
Quote:
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHh
Great thanks ALOT TALDREN! Did you ever even watch an episode of DS9, if not then I suggest you do and release a patch that makes pulse phasers the Dogs ********* and if you have then you need to have your heads examined!
Yeah let's make it more like the shows and to hell with game balance. :rolleyes:
Post by: MrCue on March 08, 2003, 04:51:00 pm
Lines 98-104 are the pulse phaser
Code:
[PrimaryItems\PULSE PHASER]
Description = "PULSE PHASER"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 275
Health = 30
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
Race = "F"
Change Damage to read 200. Voila 1 shot kill Pulse Phasers
Oh and Dont forget to backup the file before you change it. As it will stop you from playing online
Post by: StarTrekcaptain on March 08, 2003, 04:55:11 pm
Quote:
Yeah let's make it more like the shows and to hell with game balance. :rolleyes:
No Aldaron all I was saying is that the pulse phasers should be WAY more powerfull than they are now. they are SUPPOSED to be more powerful than normal phasers, so why not make them stronger, rather than weaker, that was what I was saying.
And thanks for the info on how to edit the phasers!!!!!!
Post by: MrCue on March 08, 2003, 04:59:09 pm
Post by: TheBigCheese on March 08, 2003, 05:30:17 pm
Quote:
I don't care about the strength of the Pulse Phaser. I don't care about whether or not Pulse Phasers should be primary or heavy weapon. I just want the sound FX of the Pulse Phaser to actually sound like the one used in the DS9 S/FX and not like the sound that comes from a squeezed bottle of ketchup!
Pulse phaser sound mod
http://uk.groups.yahoo.com/group/TheBigCheese_CMBBsite/
many new canon sound effects and some other
http://www.stcd.sgnonline.com/network/sfc3mods.htm
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 08, 2003, 05:57:32 pm
I dont think it should be made to debalance any more but seriously try using those pulse phashers effectively and you soon realise a far better alternative is the type X phaser or there abouts!
Post by: Pharoah on March 08, 2003, 07:11:19 pm
Pulse phasers too weak? Heh.
You must remember that there have always been differences between what you see in the TV shows (done for dramatic effect) and what you see in the SFC game series (done to make a (MOSTLY, ok, MOSTLY
) balanced game). In the TV show, a battle lasted a couple of minutes of screen time. In the game, a battle can (and should!) last 10, 20, 40 minutes or more.If the pulse phasers were any stronger, with no penalties of mass or cost, then the Federation would have a decisive advantage, wouldn't you say? Every Fed vessel would carry them, and be all the more powerful because of it.
How long before that caused a rankling sense of unfairness in those that play the other races? Not long after that, player counts for these races would drop as interest in fighting a losing battle drops, and servers become almost entirely Fed populated (a common condition that has started to change on some of the better servers as people branch out and explore options).
Is this what you want?
And, if you don't play online, then certainly you can edit the .gf files to increase the damage of pulse phasers to just about any level you wish (though I fail to see the enjoyment myself).
Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Nah, not likely.....;))
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 08, 2003, 07:21:41 pm
I may be drunk, but pulse phasers are sh*te usless weapons that only appaer to look damaging. Try blowing somthing up with just pulse phasers, it wont happen, you will get bored and quit.
Post by: sunspot42x on March 08, 2003, 07:46:26 pm
Handled correctly, this would pull them into line with what was seen in the series - pulse phasers mounted in a small but well-powered and presumably costly ship (the Defiant) - without throwing them out of balance with the other primaries in the game. It would also help to differentiate their behavior (and the tactics for using or defending against them).
Post by: KD4 on March 08, 2003, 08:59:48 pm
Quote:
Hmmm, certainly a.....singular....viewpoint there. A decidedly blue feel, don't you think?
Pulse phasers too weak? Heh.
You must remember that there have always been differences between what you see in the TV shows (done for dramatic effect) and what you see in the SFC game series (done to make a (MOSTLY, ok, MOSTLY
If the pulse phasers were any stronger, with no penalties of mass or cost, then the Federation would have a decisive advantage, wouldn't you say? Every Fed vessel would carry them, and be all the more powerful because of it.
How long before that caused a rankling sense of unfairness in those that play the other races? Not long after that, player counts for these races would drop as interest in fighting a losing battle drops, and servers become almost entirely Fed populated (a common condition that has started to change on some of the better servers as people branch out and explore options).
Is this what you want?
And, if you don't play online, then certainly you can edit the .gf files to increase the damage of pulse phasers to just about any level you wish (though I fail to see the enjoyment myself).
Of course, thats just my opinion, I could be wrong. (Nah, not likely.....;))
good post Pharoah. and how have you been?
Post by: Whiplash on March 08, 2003, 11:10:43 pm
Its too bad show writers don't have to play their story in game form before they submit it. Stuff would be way more balanced. Possibly more boring, but way more balanced.
I wonder if you based a sci-fi space opera off of a systematized game if it could be any good.
W.
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 12:59:49 am
Description = "PHASER XIIIS"
Cost = 1950
Mass = 450
Health = 55
Energy = 12.0
Damage = 12.0
Description = "PULSE PHASER"
Cost = 1250
Mass = 275
Health = 30
Energy = 6.0
Damage = 8.0
The effectiveness of a weapon can be summarized through Cost/Damage Efficiency, Mass/Damage Efficiency and Energy/Damage Efficiency. In each of these categories, the smaller the number, the better.
The XIIIS has the following summary:
Cost/Damage Efficiency = 162.5
Mass/Damage Efficiency = 37.5
Energy/Damage Efficiency = 1
The Pulse Phaser has this summary:
Cost/Damage Efficiency = 156.25
Mass/Damage Efficiency = 34.38
Energy/Damage Efficiency = .75
The Pulse Phaser wins in all 3 Efficiency categories, most notably Energy/Damage Efficiency (a whopping 25% superior over it's much larger competition).
The Phaser XIIIS does more damage at 100% power, but a pulse phaser overpowered to 200% does just as much damage (at range 6 or less) AND has the ability to pierce shields, AND is almost half the weight.
The XIIIS has only a couple of advantages: longer range, and superior damage when overloaded. And look at all the disadvantages it has to take on to get those 2 advantages over the Pulse Phaser: heavier, costlier, no shield piercing, far less efficient, requires more energy.
You can conclude from all this that the Pulse Phaser is a very underappreciated weapon. 200% Power to this weapon gives you 12 points of damage to deal to your opponent (per shot, 1.2 points of that damage getting straight through the shields, on average). For the damage it does, it is incredibly light and efficient. The much-lauded Quantum Torpedo does only 13 damage at 100%, and is less energy efficient!
I think the reason behind the Pulse Phaser's bad press is due to the very wimpy sound effects it gets in the game, creating a psychological effect leading the player to believe they are far weaker than they really are. But if you look at the numbers, that just isn't the case!
So don't be afraid to use the Pulse Phasers, they are worth every PP you spend on them. Just remember to give them plenty of overload power, and you have one of the best weapons in the game!
Post by: Wiz33 on March 09, 2003, 03:17:34 am
Post by: Blitzkrieg on March 09, 2003, 04:26:18 am
I dont have that sound effect problem though, 2 100 watt sub woofers and an Extigy sound card later and those pulse phasers dont sound too bad after all. I really will have to try over loading them fully and flying in at close range to check this out.....
..... just have to wonder though, why they never seem to do squat for me? Could be my lack of skill or just my lack of attention to detail.
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 05:43:12 am
Post by: Torque on March 09, 2003, 08:25:05 am
Quote:
Let's comare the Pulse Phaser with Starfleet's hardest-hitting Phaser, the XIIIS:
-----Interesting comparison. A Platform primary weapon and a CL weapon? FYI you cant mount a 13S on a ship.
As for energy overloading, Roflmao!
Ummm all you guys that call this a cheese ship, forget that cheese melts easily. Lets see you all load up all that energy with an eggshell of a hull and NO RANGE.
Bah hahaaha!
Cozy up to a tough hulled ship with those Pulse Primaries and see where that gets ya.
Your comparison while interesting, is not real world, imo.
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 09, 2003, 12:27:59 pm
Can you still play online if you install the sound modst like the atmosphere mod?
Alexander
Post by: Tulmahk on March 09, 2003, 10:39:26 pm
Quote:
-----Interesting comparison. A Platform primary weapon and a CL weapon? FYI you cant mount a 13S on a ship.
As for energy overloading, Roflmao!
The comparison was intentional, to exhibit the raw power of the Pulse Phaser. It compares favorably with a starbase weapon, and that is rather remarkable. Compare it with the XIIS, and it looks even better. Instead of providing a counter-analysis, you simply dismiss my numbers out of hand. Well, you would have to, since my numbers happen to be correct (compared with your perceptual fantasy).
As a Romulan player, I love it when Fed players discount this weapon, since it's one I don't relish going up against. So everybody please do me a favor and follow Torque's advice to avoid Pulse Phasers. Just avoid them at your own risk.
BTW, if you're worried about the so-called eggshell hull, the Defiant class is meant to be run at speeds of 50-60, using AV to good effect.
Post by: Alexander1701 on March 09, 2003, 11:57:39 pm
Alexander