Dynaverse.net
Taldrenites => Dynaverse II Experiences => Topic started by: Herr Burt on April 02, 2006, 11:27:55 pm
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If you've any comments about Economic War, please leave them here. I've got the info thread locked so I can keep it cleanly updated and easy to read for players.
-Herr Burt
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How is it that no one tracked me down and told me about a server where I can kill my own allies... On purpose even? I had to come back and find this for myself I'm ashamed with you all (Chuut)
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How is it that no one tracked me down and told me about a server where I can kill my own allies... On purpose even? I had to come back and find this for myself I'm ashamed with you all (Chuut)
Actually the plan was in place to tell you about this server Maverick, although the ability to target your own allies was supposed to be left as a big surprise :flame:
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One thought Herr Burt.
Pirate ships often carried lots of extra sailors on board for capturing enemy shipping. I would like to suggest that you consider raising the maximum marine numbers for all pirate vessels.
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Got another idea as well Scippy:
Dont know if it is possible but it would be cool if we could work out some system where ships having extra cargo boxes could recieve more rewards for missions as they could make off with more loot. You might even consider modifying a few ships to give up weapons or engines in exchange for more cargo area as variants if a way was found to facilitate this.
Kinda be nice to have the cargo bays serve a function other than as extra hull.
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wow simply a great story line,and i can't wait for it to begin......no more surrentistiously out bidding my wing for a ship(right Warp and D'fly...last campaign :) ) betrayal is the name of the game.As i recall,this is planned for late april??? should be in time for me to have my new system up and running. :woot: :woot: :woot: better read up on the :help: o wait throw the book away ---> :popcorn: -----> :drinkinsong:-----> :puke: = great party
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I also seemed to recall there being some discussion on invisible t-bomb being posible once upon a time, if these work this would definately be the time to use them..... :flame:
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Oh and Herr Burt, I hope that the inclusion of the new alliy unfriendly missions in no way cancels out that earlier propossal regarding game bugged missions in those cases where the bug lets you fire on an ally that the mission isn't supposed to allow you to.
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so what are the rules, that wont be fallowed sense we are all pirates and pirates don't fallow rules just the pirate code which are just guidelines any way :P
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Got another idea as well Scippy:
Dont know if it is possible but it would be cool if we could work out some system where ships having extra cargo boxes could recieve more rewards for missions as they could make off with more loot. You might even consider modifying a few ships to give up weapons or engines in exchange for more cargo area as variants if a way was found to facilitate this.
Kinda be nice to have the cargo bays serve a function other than as extra hull.
Of course then you'd have to have a system to penalize these ships when they take cargo hits..
~ And of course I should point out that if you are including fighters for any of the pirate vessels to have a
look at their stats. IIRC many of the pirate fighters are armed with mutiple phaser G's, or multiple phaser2
I would suggest using DH's fighterlist. (Which of course is what the SFB pirates used anyway)
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I agree that the fighters for Pirates are quite OTT. I also love the rules of Piracy so far. I do however have a question, now only if I can ask it in the way I think it is a problem. Here goes.
Quoted: "Great Haul Killing and looting hulking cargo ships and rusty naval vessels is one thing, but when you kill a legend of the spaceways you get a large reward in prize booty and fame. In any PvP mission the victor(s) get(s) Victory Points and Piracy Points equal to the economic value of the human controled ship(s) destroyed. If more than one player survives on the winning side, the winning players divide the Victory and Piracy points equally."
"Arrrrrr! Don't forget, matey, it's only live players that get to divite the Great Haul. If it looks like the payoff is going to be extra large, and maybe your best friend is a little wounded, nothing says you can't put a full broadside up his thrusters. Not only to do you get to keep the full Great Haul for yourself, but you get a full payoff for a Betrayal as well." Stop quote
Comment for this part is: if in a mission where you are not allied to your ally then there would only be 1 Victor. Dastardly dirty but what happens when it is a mission where you are allied to your wing?
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Oh and Herr Burt, I hope that the inclusion of the new alliy unfriendly missions in no way cancels out that earlier propossal regarding game bugged missions in those cases where the bug lets you fire on an ally that the mission isn't supposed to allow you to.
The inclusion of the Evil Dave betrayal option largely makes this rule superfluous. (No need to wait for a bug if you can target and shoot your ally anyway.) But not always.
Yes, if you are in a mission who's script normally won't allow you to target your ally and a bug allows you to do so, then feel free to shoot him if you think that is in your best interest.
You can also tow him into a rock or shove him into a sun or blackhole even if there is no bug.
In other words, trust no one any further than the barrel of your pistol. Cartels work together because the Overlord will kill anyone who messes up his regular flow of funds, but in the end every pirate is in this game for himself.
-Herr Burt
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Comment for this part is: if in a mission where you are not allied to your ally then there would only be 1 Victor. Dastardly dirty but what happens when it is a mission where you are allied to your wing?
In these missions you start out allied to your ally; it's just that you are allowed to target and fire on allies. As far as victory conditions go for the mission, you two are still allied even after you start shooting at each other. However, the Great Haul gets divided evenly between all players on the winning side at the end of the mission. If you can kill your ally or chase him off the map before the mission ends, then you get to keep all the booty for yourself. (Double entendre intended.) If he's still alive, then he gets his share.
Which means you might want to be careful. If the true enemy is badly wounded and you are beating your ally, he might try to kill the enemy just to end the mission and get his share. On the other hand, if you two start squabbling then the enemy is sure to try and crawl off the map.
You have to time betrayal so carefully. It's a shame that certain law enforcement agencies don't appreciate the full artistry of the act.
-Herr Burt
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:huh: looking for downloads and not finding them..... help please...
Kapact
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Ditto. I hadn't even realized the server was up! :o
Oh wait, this is an old thread.... Sooo what's the status?
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OK. I cleared my calendar, got the coffee on and finished, told my wife I was indisposed for the next 3 days, and sat in my command chair.....When I gave the command to depart space dock I recieved the error:
"you do not have the correct test file."
Blinking incredulously, I again gave the order to depart.....only to be met with the same response from my helmsman.
Never being one to overlook a disobeyed order, I promptly shot him in the head, and replaced him. Once the mess was removed from the bridge I had the crew perform a systems check. I discovered that the moorings were indeed locked and could only be unlocked by a code held by a slippery, stinking lizard.
In otherwords....I thought we were supposed to go live today. What gives?
Other question.....anyone got an extra legendary helmsman lying about besides me? lol :o
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Oops! :-[ From the info thread:
ECONOMIC WAR IS SET TO GO LIVE ON SUNDAY MAY 7 AT 6PM
http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php/topic,163366053.0.html
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Who ever heard of a server going live on a Sunday?! It's just not done!
Friday mostly!
Pm mostly!
AM Never!
Saturday occaisionally!
Sunday Never!
Find me the nearest convoy carrying Chocodiles to the Gorn Republic........It begins as soon as the moorings are released!
Leave things up to lizards and you see what happens?!
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Herr Bert,
Distress Mission:
No opposition to kill
Could not even shoot and take over my "allies" ship that I was suppose to rescue.
XX
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Same thing in the Ambush the Enemy mission - no enemy and a loss on withdrawing.
(Guess it's no biggie really from a pirate point of view (arrrrrr, the scurvy dogs musta slipped away, arrrrrrr), and the mission is easily avoidable since it's not mandatory.)
DV shifts also seem a little flaky - they're working ok in enemy Cartel space (as far as I could tell) but not in cartel neutral?
dave
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Asteroid Assault in a frig no less, but won it, mission did not end till I left map
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scout mission, no target(s) mission closed 3 seconds in...
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I'm on the far side of space and seemed to be doing fine. Might be a models issue perhaps?
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Asteroid Assault in a frig no less, but won it, mission did not end till I left map
Hmmm... "Asteroid Assault" not familiar with that one, but glad to see such a small shipa as you were flying was adequate to complete your mission, J'inn would be proud!
<Snicker>
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Herr Bert,
I've seen several references in the rules thread about various items being dependent on reporting periods. Understandably these will likely be based around your personal schedule but was wondering if they would be daily or less frequent, whether they would be around the same time or staggered during different times of the day, and finally whether they would be public info or secret.
Personally I have preference for the first item. Regarding the second item I think it best to stagger the times as much as possible so that a cartel stronger at the close of the period not be able to capitalize on this every single reporting period, seizing key assets at the last moment. As for the third item, altough there are a lot of folkes who would want a public disclosure, I think secret timing is best to minimize last second "VC" operations as much as possible, especially if times cannot be staggered.
Just thought I'd bring these items up. Thank you for your consideration and all your hard work. Regardless of your decisions about these things I will not be critical of them as I know first and foremost you must plan around your personal schedule. I just wanted to bring up the issue for your consideration.
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One more question Herr Bert,
2) Player vs. Player Kills: Governments and merchants pay off pirates they think are strong. No one pays a wimp to leave them alone. Each kill your cartel makes proves the point that you are a force to be reckoned with. Each time you kill a player in an opposing cartel, post in the kills thread the player you killed and the ship(s) he was flying. That economic costs of that ship(s) will be added to a running total for your cartel. Each point is worth one Victory Point.
Not sure what you mean by the prestige cost of the ships. Is this the purchase price? the BPV?, or the Federation and Empire style economic points?
I surely hope it is not the prestige cost as these are way too high. Even the BPV might be too high as well unless you deduct some points for PvP loses, otherwise we might see some cartels throw themselves at each other time after time and run up huge totals. This really threw off the balance of the KCW server. On the other hand economic points ala Fed and Empire may be too low. Perhaps the best way would be to use the BPV but have losses deducted from wins, so that only net gains in VCs be counted in this area. This would also help a smaller cartel with a good PvP record who might have a high percentage of wins but too few pilots to rack up large kill numbers that other houses with worse percentages might be able to achieve. Not sure whether you'd want to deal with Net loses or not, however.
Anyhow, anyway is fine, just want to know the system.
Likely you already have a system worked out and thats fine, just expressing some concerns and wanting to know what system was being used and if losses were counted as well as wins.
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I just had a base defense that complained about me not blowing up the base.
Edit: Also boarding and attempting to fly the Q ships and cargo doesnt seem to work too well.
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We have taken some hexes in enemy territory and they are not showing up on the main map as ours. If you right click them they show they have been taken by us and are allied, but the map does not show it. I thought maybe it was because I was online when they flipped but actually my wings took 2 before I came online. A couple others we took in neutral space are showing up as the color of one of our enemies(same enemy as when they did not change color when we flipped them) although when right clicking it is showing as ours.
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We have taken some hexes in enemy territory and they are not showing up on the main map as ours. If you right click them they show they have been taken by us and are allied, but the map does not show it. I thought maybe it was because I was online when they flipped but actually my wings took 2 before I came online. A couple others we took in neutral space are showing up as the color of one of our enemies(same enemy as when they did not change color when we flipped them) although when right clicking it is showing as ours.
Which enemy hexs are you taking that are not changing color?
Which enemy (the same, I guess) are your hexs appearing as when you take neutral space?
Does this happen with all the hexs you take, or just some?
If you can get me a list of problem hexs, I'll take a look at them when I work on the DB tonight.
-Herr Burt
Make a note of
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I will PM you with details.
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Have noticed the same thing mainly concerning base and planet hexes. The Beast Raider hexes where we have a base show us as neutral colored on the zoomed out map but appear our color when zoomed in. The same can be said of Tholian space which shows up as the same purple as our space. The Tholian hexes appear purple when zoomed out but appear neutral on the cartel map when zoomed in.
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Have noticed the same thing mainly concerning base and planet hexes. The Beast Raider hexes where we have a base show us as neutral colored on the zoomed out map but appear our color when zoomed in. The same can be said of Tholian space which shows up as the same purple as our space. The Tholian hexes appear purple when zoomed out but appear neutral on the cartel map when zoomed in.
Ah, if that is what Dfly is seeing, then that is normal. Notice that when you zoom in, the base and planet icons are still the empire color even though the hex color is yours.
Pirates never really own a base or planet; they just raid it.
The color bleeds over when zoomed all the way out, which makes it look like the hex is the wrong color. But the hex is OK.
It's all part of the server "atmosphere". ;)
-Herr Burt
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I will PM you with details.
Sent you a reply; and you can look at the post above.
-Herr Burt
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First off, Thanks for the server Herr Bert. I'm having a blast...and oddly its running smoother than some single player conquest campaigns that I've played... :huh:
Now sometime later this week I need to experience this thing that people call PvP...I hear its quite...fun :)
I've noticed something, not sure if it could be classified as a glitch or what, but I've seen 2 O-CAs with an extra pair of drone launchers that does not show up in the MFD. Obviously when I wasn't expecting the ship to be carrying drones in the first place I was a little...surprised.
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First off, Thanks for the server Herr Bert. I'm having a blast...and oddly its running smoother than some single player conquest campaigns that I've played... :huh:
Now sometime later this week I need to experience this thing that people call PvP...I hear its quite...fun :)
I've noticed something, not sure if it could be classified as a glitch or what, but I've seen 2 O-CAs with an extra pair of drone launchers that does not show up in the MFD. Obviously when I wasn't expecting the ship to be carrying drones in the first place I was a little...surprised.
Arrrrr, matey! It's good you're having fun. Yo ho, yo ho, it's a pirates life for me!
Make a note of the blody cheat Orion CA's that do this if you see them again. See if it's a CA1 or CA2 or CO3. I'll be wantin to see if it's a Taldren mistake on the list, or something else. I don't think I could have added any drones to any ships.
We'll rip those bloody racks right out of their thieving hides.
Arrrr!!!!!
-Herr Burt (up way too late)
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I think it's both the CA1 and the CA3, but the CA1 fer sure (I was treating it as a feature - damn sneaky pirates!)
dave
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The Only ID it gave me was O-CA. One was armed with 4 other Drone Racks...so it was surprising when it launched six at me. The other was armed with a Pair of Disrupters and a pair of Photons.
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Same here, the CA1/CA3 is from looking in the shiplist for orion CAs with matching armament
dave
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Shiver me bulkhead and baton down the airlock, ar ya sure it twasn't a scatterpack???
OneEyed_Mrogue
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Some of the pirate ships weapons also don't show up in the "comment" section in shipedit.
I assume they're in the wrong kind of slots .
Some of the DCR's I believe..think cambaro had one or two..
have to see if I can find my list now.
I meant to mention this earlier, but forgot.
The ships seem to have the correct weapons when used .
(And of course it doesn't seem to effect any of the Tigerheart ships )
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As an aside, this gives me evil ideas for a campaign where all weapons are hidden, and you don't know what the enemy will fire at you until he opens fire.
Put it in a map with a lot of asteroids, black holes, and nebula, and claim that the interference is too high to get good scans of the enemy.
Call the campaign "Blind Man's Bluff", or something.
Anyway, on with the answers......
The Only ID it gave me was O-CA. One was armed with 4 other Drone Racks...so it was surprising when it launched six at me. The other was armed with a Pair of Disrupters and a pair of Photons.
Ah, I see. I was reading the O in O-CA to mean Orion Cartel, but you really mean O-CA, for Neutral Orion Pirates, not X-CA, for Orion Cartel pirates.
I understand how this happens, and I believe it is a Taldren glitch with the standard shiplist. I didn't mess with the neutral pirates at all, and didn't add any weapons (yet!) to any of the Taldren cartel ships.
Here is how it works: Each ship has twenty weapons slots that can be fillled; ten heavy and ten "other". The "other" is mostly used for phasers and ADD. However, each ship UI only shows a limited set of these slots on its graphic. Freightors only show one or two; battleships and starbases generally will show all twenty. Other ships fall in between.
If you put a weapon into a slot that won't show on the UI, the weapon will still work properly. It will still draw power and it will fire if you select "all weapons"; but it won't show on the UI and you won't be able to select it to fire individually.
I don't know if the ships in question have visible slots that are empty, but I'll look into it. If they do then I may try to fix this bug when I combine cartels next Monday.
In the meantime, the surprise shots will just add a bit more spice to the game. As Evil Dav says, them damn pirates is sneaky!
-Herr Burt
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Perhaps I have missed it if someone else wrote it, but speed 31 freighters are ridiculous. How can freightors be faster than starships?
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Someone's been playin with the freighters..
Still those aren't the worst (not so many gunz)
The nice ones are when you get convoy raid and 3 of 5 being FQL's with an "escort" freighter or two
dropping it's" PF's".
Gawd I miss ESG's.
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Perhaps I have missed it if someone else wrote it, but speed 31 freighters are ridiculous. How can freightors be faster than starships?
Those are stock freightors. However, they are unaffected by the convoy raid's scripted insturctions to "go only speed 10 and wait to get shot". They also have very little to arm, so they can put it all their power in speed.
-Herr Burt
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What speed are the years going to pass? It seems to me moving pretty slow. I was surprised to see 2264 considering the set-up story said this takes place after the general war had concluded.
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What speed are the years going to pass? It seems to me moving pretty slow. I was surprised to see 2264 considering the set-up story said this takes place after the general war had concluded.
It should be passing at a year a day.
I know that seems odd for "post war", but I wanted to do it that way because I figure the wartime weaponry is just now starting to trickle down into the black market. During the war those things were needed on the front for survival, and very little got out.
(Besides, starting in 2263 gives you a tech tree to move through to keep things interesting.)
-Herr Burt
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Yes had several O-CA with extra missiles, and no they were not scats.
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had an OCA drop a scat and use drone racks that were invisible. aslo Suprised Reverse doesnt show romulans.
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had an OCA drop a scat and use drone racks that were invisible. aslo Suprised Reverse doesnt show romulans.
Because they are cloaked ;D
Actually had same thing happen to me.
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New economy after the cleaning musta taken a nose dive. We have 7 ships now in our docks. that is 7 total ships, and that is 1 more than what I saw the first 2 times I checked. Will the totals come back to what they were soon or is that the way it starts after the cleaning? I have not been on after one till now, so I honestly dont know.
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New economy after the cleaning musta taken a nose dive. We have 7 ships now in our docks. that is 7 total ships, and that is 1 more than what I saw the first 2 times I checked. Will the totals come back to what they were soon or is that the way it starts after the cleaning? I have not been on after one till now, so I honestly dont know.
Cleaning the database erases all the "orphan" ships that have been created by bugged missions. The cleaner does this by erasing all ships tht do not belong to anyone. As a consequence, all ships in the shipyard are erased as well. Your yards should slowly refill with time.
Wyldefire econ did not appreciably change.
-Herr Burt
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had an OCA drop a scat and use drone racks that were invisible. aslo Suprised Reverse doesnt show romulans.
Because they are cloaked ;D
Actually had same thing happen to me.
All right, keep an eye on this. It's a stock mission, so i'm not sure what is wrong.
If it gets to be a problem I'd suggest just not selecting it whenever possible. Pulling missions is difficult and requires a patch, and I'd rather not patch outside the regular schedule unless we absolutely have to.
-Herr Burt
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NP i've only pulled romulans twice usually i get other cartels or lyrans.
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I've noticed that when I enter a battle, I can see everything as if I was at point blank range with them. It wasn't this way before the update...
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everything is fine here, and my shiplist is getting much better. too bad there does not seem to be any new ships for me the last couple days ;)
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One note, when I do convoy raids against roms in a nebula I don't seem to be getting a convoy - just the escort. No complaints, it's way easier ;) and the mission ends with a win when I nuc the escort, but it might be a symptom of something else quirky going on.
Having great fun though!
dave
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arg...i've bethked on two derelict patrols now. Any suggestions?
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arg...i've bethked on two derelict patrols now. Any suggestions?
I always scan and grab whatever is available to be transported off the derelict and then destroy it before the enemy arrives, then destroy the enemy, this seems to be the flow the mission expects. Are you doing otherwise?
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i'm exploding as soon as the mission starts.
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Methinks that Bonk has forgotten what the Hand of Bethke is...
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i'm exploding as soon as the mission starts.
Some of the derelict models only show up in the derelict mission. If someone (anyone) can point you to the old Firesould model checker, I'd give that a try to make sure the relevant models are present in their folder.
-Herr Burt
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I saw the other ship's models fine...THey were out there, looked like ships and all...
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The missions work fine, the derelicts are just carrying Corbomite ;D
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On the Wyldefire, the BR2 and BR3 are now out. Unfortunately they are identical. One of them is wrong. I wont ask you to change them because that would mean another download for all players, but I thought I would mention it.
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something that's been bothering me since the server began. Why are Base and Planetary Assault Missions MANDATORY?! Especially if Bases are destructable? Why would you want to destroy a base in your home space? Does anyone actually play these missions? I just usually turn around and warp away.
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something that's been bothering me since the server began. Why are Base and Planetary Assault Missions MANDATORY?! Especially if Bases are destructable? Why would you want to destroy a base in your home space? Does anyone actually play these missions? I just usually turn around and warp away.
Bases should not have been destructable. I now have that fixed. If you find they are still destructable, let me know.
I'll be checking and replacing any missing bases while the server is down Monday. Note that, unlike all my previous servers, the positions of bases so not affect the economy of this map. They are simply there to show military supply depots where you can purchase items via corrupt supply officers. Pirates don't really want to get the attention of (for example) the US Navy by suddenly wiping out Pearl Harbor.
-Herr Burt
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I don't know, as I said I haven't tried. But just the Idea that we, as pirates have to attack the base or the planet if the mission is brought up just flies in the face of being a Pirate. The Planet and the Base is where we re-supply and repair, if we attack it...why would they let us resupply at any of their other ports? It just...illogical...
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I'll be checking and replacing any missing bases while the server is down Monday.
sheesh, all that wasted effort :P
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I don't know, as I said I haven't tried. But just the Idea that we, as pirates have to attack the base or the planet if the mission is brought up just flies in the face of being a Pirate. The Planet and the Base is where we re-supply and repair, if we attack it...why would they let us resupply at any of their other ports? It just...illogical...
Heh heh. They don't *let* you resupply anywhere. You raid the stations and pillage the planets!
AAAarrrrrrrrrr!!!!!!!
-Herr Burt
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Yes yes...but you don't destroy it or capture it...destroying it is like killing the golden goose...and capturing it...well...why would a Pirate want to plant his flag somewhere where every government in the galaxy knows your there?
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Yes yes...but you don't destroy it or capture it...destroying it is like killing the golden goose...and capturing it...well...why would a Pirate want to plant his flag somewhere where every government in the galaxy knows your there?
Well, like I said, you weren't supposed to be able to blow up the bases. And now you can't. You just raid the commerce around them, which thought it was safe being so close to a base, and the thing you blow up in the mission is just ann outying firestation.
As for the planets, you don't take them over either. How could a cuple of ships have enough marines to land and take over an entire planet? Espeically in an imperial core? Obviously you are just knocking a hole in the defense and sacking a small city on the planet. Then you are buggering off before the navy shows up.
If you do either long enough, the merchants start paying you to leave the alone, and the hex flips your color.
At least, that's the conception of what's going on. We make do with the D2 tools we have.
They have to be mandatory if mandatories are going to be present at all. I can't control them mission by mission. Also, getting mandatories is tricky on the pirate layer since the game cares more about the imperial layer when assigning those. Iv'e got the settings set up to give you as many mandatories in enemy space and as few in friendly cartel space as I could manage; and I need as many mandatories popping up as possible or else you'd have complete free reign over the map. (what you've got is pretty close; and about where I wanted things to turn up. But there is a chance you'll get snagged for a mission when you pull in to tank up.)
-Herr Burt
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Hmmmmm .... why do I sense a (cartel oriented) "base raid" mission in the offing ;D
Along the lines of "you have to transport a raiding team onto the base for X turns then recover them and the loot they dig up", with a big police fleet coming in soon ...
dave