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Taldrenites => Dynaverse II Experiences => Topic started by: Dizzy on January 19, 2007, 10:25:40 am

Title: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 19, 2007, 10:25:40 am: Slave Girls of Orion VII: License to Shag!

Check sound here 1st... then click on the pic. (http://home.satx.rr.com/arachne/THX%20Sound.wav)

(http://home.satx.rr.com/arachne/SG7.jpg) (http://home.satx.rr.com/arachne/APTheme.wav)

So you played the last two? You know about what to expect in terms of VC's, rules, map, missions and shiplist, but nothing is posted yet. What mainstream requests or changes do you want to see. I'm in the mood to entertain some ideas.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: GDA-Agave on January 19, 2007, 10:54:07 am: I would like to mention again that I would like to NOT see any system with assigned ships. Personally I think the limited heavy metal rules that we have used on the past few servers seems much more fluid and it's gives everyone an equal chance to fly these ships.

That's it for now. Consider that dead horse beaten.

AGAVE
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Kroma BaSyl on January 19, 2007, 11:05:12 am: So long as I ket to BF I'll be one happy Lizard.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on January 19, 2007, 11:18:15 am: I'd like the shiplist we used last time. I'd also be a little irked if the CC restriction was put in, for whatever reason the CCs seem a bit more balance than the vanilla CAs.

Depending on when you want to start it, ED's missions could be used. (I think they need a good solid Month of testing first, so if you want to start it before February I guess we should look elsewhere)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Soreyes on January 19, 2007, 11:45:47 am: Have LOT'S and LOT's of Z-DF's in the yards..........I think I might be using them all ;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: GDA-Agave on January 19, 2007, 12:43:41 pm: Quote from: Kroma BaSyl on January 19, 2007, 11:05:12 am
So long as I ket to BF I'll be one happy Lizard.

"get to BF" or "get to fly a BF"? Hmmmm. One has to wonder if Kroma really knew what he was typing here.

:o :o :o
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 19, 2007, 02:37:27 pm: Quote from: GDA-Agave on January 19, 2007, 12:43:41 pm
Quote from: Kroma BaSyl on January 19, 2007, 11:05:12 am
So long as I ket to BF I'll be one happy Lizard.

"get to BF" or "get to fly a BF"? Hmmmm. One has to wonder if Kroma really knew what he was typing here.

:o :o :o

He knows EXACTLY what he's typing... unfortunately...
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on January 19, 2007, 04:06:41 pm: Working Lyran ships with correct FYA's would be cool for a change.

Should have a time- like the middle weekend or something where anyone can fly BC's or something.
Have a big (though not DN/CVA) metalfest in the middle of it.

When's the (very approximate) date for this?
I'm using a friends connection to post and surf, but if I want to actually play I'm going to have to set up a new
interent connection.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: NuclearWessels on January 19, 2007, 04:10:58 pm: I still like the idea of having one or two "Mog's Rules" days

dave
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lepton on January 19, 2007, 05:51:17 pm: Don't know how mainstream it is but I still like the idea of giving line ships a special tactical and strategic role. As you all may know I had a very specific idea of how to do that, but it was not the most popular although it was exceedingly brilliant and beyond innovative. If there is some way to make line ships just as valuable as capital ships, I am all for it. So far we have merely seen the Slot idea linked to a VC which was good but ultimately limited to my mind.

I'll just reiterate my idea here for posterity's sake.

In a PvP situation:

1. Any players in line ships are not subjected to the disengagement rule when faced by any non-line ships.
2. Any players in lines ships are subjected to the disengagement rule when faced by a group of all line ships.
3. Non-line ships always subjected to disengagement rule.

This simple rule set will make it advantageous to fly line ships and will make opposing player have to fly a line ship to bump other line ships out of a hex. It's an awesome idea.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 19, 2007, 06:32:03 pm: I like that. Getting everyone to know what is and isnt a line ship would be the problem, but I think it'd work...
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on January 19, 2007, 07:32:17 pm: I'd like to see less than 20 pages of rules to print... :P
Like to see: Standard CnC rules for fleeting, (like SGO6). Similar Disengagement rules, but limited to a single hex, possibly the "7-hex" disengement around planets only..possibly.

Wouldn't mind seeing some more of those "Legendary Crew" ships, kept to line ships, not specialty or Capitol ships. Maybe we could have a set number to award to Captains who are deserving, say to RM's descretion. Or They could possibly be awarded for PvP victories (similar to what we*Myself, Tool, Dizzy and DH discussed prior to SGO6.)
Or they could possibly be something to award to ARMs, for their dedication. It was fun to fly. ;) But, after a while they are simply outclassed in later eras.

just a couple thoughts... ;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Green on January 19, 2007, 08:05:49 pm: Quote from: Lepton on January 19, 2007, 05:51:17 pm
the Slot idea

Second.

The use of the slot rule on rdsl was great. Only part I differ w/ Lepton on is to limit it by class (speed) as opposed to line vs special, would be easier for a player to know what is what (just look at the stats) and would help to prevent mistakes (and the subsequent claims of cheating that would result).
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Kzinbane on January 20, 2007, 03:34:25 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on January 19, 2007, 06:32:03 pm
I like that. Getting everyone to know what is and isnt a line ship would be the problem, but I think it'd work...

A pain in the butt perhaps, but couldn't the shiplist have ship's names or designations modded so line ships have a known designator or some other way to identify it when you look at it in the shipyards? Line ships come with no mines or something easy to see.
Back to the nuring home now, they let me out on a pass as long as I don't bring my canine teeth dentures with me.

Kzinbane
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on January 20, 2007, 03:47:20 pm: It's easy enough to modify the shiplist with a single letter designating what is special.(time consuming, but easy)
I know DH would love to do it

Again you'd have the argimens though of whether to include the CC's ot not.
While far better balanced across the board than the "line" ship ships, some people seem to disaprove.

It's true that they're a little backward, and probably also fear that camera's will steal their soul if someone takes their picture
but they're out there...

Also we should find some way of limiting the multi racial fleets.
Still not a big fan of using race X and T to guard race Y's Cap ship beacuse it's "the bestest combo ever"
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Kzinbane on January 20, 2007, 07:10:05 pm: Not that campaigns are realistic by any means but it really is rediculous to think that one race would just give up control of their home space and planetary protection to an allied race no matter how much it were trusted. If you look at the "history" of the general war in SFB you'll find that the Kzinti, Gorn, Tholians, Klingons, Romies & Lyrans did send a few expeditionary fleets off to fight far away from their own borders but this certainly wasn't the case as it usually is in the D2 where you find Klingons over fighting Gorns & pesty ol' Kzinti showing up anywhere with their cheezy drones ( :P ).

Ug, I hate to agree with Hexx but I guess I can get over it I guess...

Kzinbane
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lepton on January 20, 2007, 07:49:27 pm: Quote from: Hexx on January 20, 2007, 03:47:20 pm
It's easy enough to modify the shiplist with a single letter designating what is special.(time consuming, but easy)
I know DH would love to do it

Again you'd have the argimens though of whether to include the CC's ot not.
While far better balanced across the board than the "line" ship ships, some people seem to disaprove.

It's true that they're a little backward, and probably also fear that camera's will steal their soul if someone takes their picture
but they're out there...

Also we should find some way of limiting the multi racial fleets.
Still not a big fan of using race X and T to guard race Y's Cap ship beacuse it's "the bestest combo ever"

At this point, I couldn't care less if CCs were included in the ruleset I proposed or not. I just think it is a very interesting idea that would create a whole new level of gameplay and give "line" ships however we wish to define them a real tactical and strategic role.

I also agree about the racial combo fleets. I'd love to see a race-specific fleeting rule of some sort. The SFB racial antagonists were designed with specific counters to each other's weapons and tactics. I'd love to see that put into the forefront here.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 20, 2007, 08:06:17 pm: Quote from: Lepton on January 20, 2007, 07:49:27 pm
I'd love to see a race-specific fleeting rule of some sort. The SFB racial antagonists were designed with specific counters to each other's weapons and tactics. I'd love to see that put into the forefront here.

Me2. Gr8 Idea. Let's say no more than 2 races per side. So that way you don't run into 3 different races flying for each side totally covering all their weaknesses...?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-Paladin on January 20, 2007, 08:22:02 pm: Like that idea about two races.. some different ships to try but not enough to completely nulify racial combat weaknesses.

I have no problem with OOB rules, light or otherwise. How about maybe some sort of exception system or events(Say, Battleship Saturday Night etc) though to shake it up ... I imagine some imagination could cook up a bazillion reasons why a race would feel a need to empty their drydocks in defence or offense.

I fly what seem considered 'line ships' (mind you I fly CC variants a lot but I like CAs too) so I wouldn't mind a twist for them if you wanted to try some kind of rule with those. A lesser penalty, either VC wise or disengagement wise is appealing because it's often difficult to fight out 2v1 or 3v1 when you're alone and not in something with a high BPV but I like at least engaging them if I can.

Oh yeah, your BCE in the shiplist would be coolio :P

I'm not too worried, I'm not hard to please for campaigns and I'm just looking forward to flying again.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Green on January 20, 2007, 08:43:38 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on January 20, 2007, 08:06:17 pm
Me2. Gr8 Idea. Let's say no more than 2 races per side. So that way you don't run into 3 different races flying for each side totally covering all their weaknesses...?

Was kind of hoping for all the races. But a 4 races campaign is good too.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on January 20, 2007, 08:49:34 pm: No no, you misunderstand. All the races will be in, its just a fleeting restriction, you can't have more than two races in a fleet.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Julin Eurthyr on January 20, 2007, 09:51:05 pm: Some thoughts that I'd like to see with this:

Fleets require at least 1 line ship per fleet.

In a "metal" inclusive fleet, the mandatory line ship needs to be of the same race as the metal ship. Ex: I-DNT needs ISC line on guard.

Make 3 levels of ship. Line, Specialty, and Metal. Specialty = CA and smaller non-line ships - maybe stock BCHs, Metal = BCH and above. Tag the Specialty and Metal levels in the shiplist (we've done that before... ;) ) As far as disengagement rule goes, a smaller grade beaten by a larger grade is excempted from disengagement, and a larger grade beaten by a smaller grade is hit with a full 7-hex disengagement penalty. Scale PvP points based on these mismatches... ;) Ditch the entire CnC completely.
Theoretically, when there is no disengagement rule stopping some of the smaller hex-flippers combatting an all-metal (or all-specialty) team, someone (or multiple someones) would have to downgrade to fight the opposition. Self policing rule that doesn't lead to an all-out all-metal escalation in hostilities... :)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on January 20, 2007, 10:06:47 pm: just remember the best rule: KISS.

Make rules complex and J'inn will be the only one who can understand them. And of course, the more complex the rule, the more Loopholes in it.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Green on January 20, 2007, 10:58:38 pm: Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on January 20, 2007, 08:49:34 pm
No no, you misunderstand. All the races will be in, its just a fleeting restriction, you can't have more than two races in a fleet.

Copy, thanks for the clarification. I do like the rule/concept, but since all races are allowed, that does mean accidental drafts that result in breaking the rule. How should those be handled?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 20, 2007, 11:57:10 pm: Quote from: Green on January 20, 2007, 10:58:38 pm
Quote from: Lieutenant_Q on January 20, 2007, 08:49:34 pm
No no, you misunderstand. All the races will be in, its just a fleeting restriction, you can't have more than two races in a fleet.

Copy, thanks for the clarification. I do like the rule/concept, but since all races are allowed, that does mean accidental drafts that result in breaking the rule. How should those be handled?

The largest ship must immediately SD. ;D

Someone said complex rules... :huh:
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-DieHard on January 21, 2007, 02:26:48 pm: Good thread which I obviously missed as I'm sucked into Medival Total War 2 . . .

I liked SGO6 with the exception of it becoming "Fast Cruiser Hell." Some of the ships we tweaked need to be un-pimped a little bit I think and maybe some FYAs need to be changed a little and we're okay with the shiplist from SGO6.

There is an 8 page thread from a few months back with some tweaks we did for a BETA SGO7. We have some whcaky ideas in there, such as full SFB fighter/PF compliments, but other than that and some damned entertaining flaming it generally goes over what we were thinking right after SGO6 ended.

I think OOB is not needed at all. I like it for the realisticness (is that a word?) but good God is it a pain in the ass to manage. We have to assume that this will be a Flatfile server as Bonk is still MIA.

Fleeting rules IMHO are the best way to reduce to keep cheese reasonable. We all try to put together the best combination of ships to fly together, whay wouldn't we? Everyone wants to be competitive and not get thrown out of a hex because of what they chose in spacedock. That said, the DNL, CF, CF fleets of SGO6 got really silly really quick and I would like some kind of rules that ar simple yet encourage "SFB" realistic fleets.

Theses were the Fleeting ideas that got kicked around a few months ago:

Proposed Fleeting rules (Set A):
- Capital ships cannot fleet together. This included but is not limited to DNs, BCHs, BBs, and fast cruisers (gotta do this after the abuse on SGO6)
- In a 3 ship fleet, one ship Must be vanilla Line (non-command).
- Only 1 PPD equipped ship in a Fleet

Carriers: (this assumes the fighter/PF compliments we are using in the current test setup)

- 2 ship Fleet: A Carrier MUST wing with an escort of the same race
- 3 Ship Fleet: first wing MUST be an Escort of the same Race. second wing can be an Escort OR an line (non-command) ship of the same/Allied Race.

Klingon B10: The Klingons will get the only BB, fleeting rules will balance this. I’m thinking . . .
2 ship Fleet: A B10 MUST wing with a Klingon Light Cruiser or smaller.
3 ship Fleet: first wing MUST with a Klingon Light Cruiser or smaller. Second wing is a Line (non-command) ship of the Same/Allied race.

Example of legal fleet: K-B10K/K-D5L/R-KDR

X-Ships: TBD. PBR had rules for "X-Fleets" and though ion SGO 6 only one X-ship was allowed in a fleet, I think we should reconsider this. A lot of legit complaints on SGO6 were about the abundance of Fast Cruisers and Attrition units in post-2280. Letting X-ships fly together in some reasonable fashion will cut down on the reliance on attrition units post 2280.

In PBR Jahkle’s idea modeled the X-ship rules on the SFB development of X-ships. When the first X-ships became available, they were cruisers designed to suplemnt Dreadnaughts and BCHs as fleet leaders.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 21, 2007, 02:33:10 pm: Quote from: FPF-DieHard on January 21, 2007, 02:26:48 pm
Good thread which I obviously missed as I'm sucked into Medival Total War 2 . . .

My Danish just wiped out the mongols... er almost. They fled into the Dead Sea, lol. Cowards!

(http://home.satx.rr.com/spiderwebs/Mongols.jpg)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on January 21, 2007, 03:07:58 pm: Bah Hungary FTW!!!

(erhm...anyone else pretend their Hungarian troops out of Bran are some kinda Underworld2ish Vampires?... No?
uhm me neither)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on January 21, 2007, 03:26:16 pm: Hmmm also forgot I had argued for full fighter loads for the carriers,
better go back and reread all my brilliant points from before.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lepton on January 21, 2007, 06:51:55 pm: Quote from: FPF-DieHard on January 21, 2007, 02:26:48 pm
We all try to put together the best combination of ships to fly together, whay wouldn't we? Everyone wants to be competitive and not get thrown out of a hex because of what they chose in spacedock.

I think the problem with this best ship combo perspective is that it goes against an essential aspect of SFB, that racial differences matter and that racial tactics matter and are an essential component of the tactical variety of the game. If you can assemble a PvP fleet combo that makes up for the racial deficits of each ship, one is essentially cheating the system that created the balance in the game that we all enjoy. I'd really prefer to see single race fleets, but I realize that is not necessarily a popular idea. Be that as it may, I don't have any other particular objections to what DH proposes or suggests.

I think someone may have already suggested this, but what about a set number of expeditionary force ships? Either restrict the number of multi-race fleets on the board at one time or restrict the number for the entire server. For the latter option, designate an expeditionary force of say 5 to 10 ships. Once those are killed off, they can't be replaced.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 21, 2007, 10:59:59 pm: Quote from: Lepton on January 21, 2007, 06:51:55 pm
I think someone may have already suggested this, but what about a set number of expeditionary force ships? Either restrict the number of multi-race fleets on the board at one time or restrict the number for the entire server. For the latter option, designate an expeditionary force of say 5 to 10 ships. Once those are killed off, they can't be replaced.

I just think this idea is awesome... One way to recreate this on the server is prohibit resupply points if they are x-number away from your home space... Course plasma races wont be too hamstrung. But this brings up a good fix for the age old tactic of capturing a planet/base in enemy space and flipping it to the most advantageous race you can that'll be the hardest match against your enemy... and too often that entails setting up your enemy against non traditional enemy AI's that will spawn against you in combat...

But to take it a step further in a different direction... I wanted to see a four powers war, but have it include all 8 races... bit those extra four races would be composed of expeditionary ships that are limited in number/availability/etc...
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-DieHard on January 22, 2007, 12:42:42 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on January 21, 2007, 10:59:59 pm
Quote from: Lepton on January 21, 2007, 06:51:55 pm
I think someone may have already suggested this, but what about a set number of expeditionary force ships? Either restrict the number of multi-race fleets on the board at one time or restrict the number for the entire server. For the latter option, designate an expeditionary force of say 5 to 10 ships. Once those are killed off, they can't be replaced.

I just think this idea is awesome... One way to recreate this on the server is prohibit resupply points if they are x-number away from your home space... Course plasma races wont be too hamstrung. But this brings up a good fix for the age old tactic of capturing a planet/base in enemy space and flipping it to the most advantageous race you can that'll be the hardest match against your enemy... and too often that entails setting up your enemy against non traditional enemy AI's that will spawn against you in combat...

But to take it a step further in a different direction... I wanted to see a four powers war, but have it include all 8 races... bit those extra four races would be composed of expeditionary ships that are limited in number/availability/etc...

Big maps with NO Embasy hexes . . .

Deeps-striking that supply point will REALLY hurt.

Oh, if a "Slot" is going to be used the area need to be strategicly valuable.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: IAF Lyrkiller on January 22, 2007, 02:18:51 pm: I agree w/ DH.
Quote from: FPF-DieHard on January 22, 2007, 12:42:42 pm
Quote from: Dizzy on January 21, 2007, 10:59:59 pm
Quote from: Lepton on January 21, 2007, 06:51:55 pm
I think someone may have already suggested this, but what about a set number of expeditionary force ships? Either restrict the number of multi-race fleets on the board at one time or restrict the number for the entire server. For the latter option, designate an expeditionary force of say 5 to 10 ships. Once those are killed off, they can't be replaced.

I just think this idea is awesome... One way to recreate this on the server is prohibit resupply points if they are x-number away from your home space... Course plasma races wont be too hamstrung. But this brings up a good fix for the age old tactic of capturing a planet/base in enemy space and flipping it to the most advantageous race you can that'll be the hardest match against your enemy... and too often that entails setting up your enemy against non traditional enemy AI's that will spawn against you in combat...

But to take it a step further in a different direction... I wanted to see a four powers war, but have it include all 8 races... bit those extra four races would be composed of expeditionary ships that are limited in number/availability/etc...

Big maps with NO Embasy hexes . . .

Deeps-striking that supply point will REALLY hurt.

Oh, if a "Slot" is going to be used the area need to be strategicly valuable.

I agree w/ DH. :)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 26, 2007, 08:18:57 pm: Wonder if a signup would be helpful... as far as like the United States of America players Vs. the Canadians, Mexicans and whoever else foreigners from overseas would play... Wonder what the numbers would look like.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-Tobin Dax on January 26, 2007, 08:53:04 pm: 50% U.S.

35% Canadian

10% United Kingdom

5% everyone else
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 27, 2007, 03:34:25 am: Then that's perfect!~ A USA Vs. server!
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: ShadowLord on January 28, 2007, 09:54:09 am: UMMM Dizzy

Its
Canada and the World
vs
USA and Quebec

Sounds better to me.

ShadowLord
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on January 28, 2007, 04:59:18 pm: Well, if you're gonna do that then we need to talk red states blue states....
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBF MalaK on January 28, 2007, 05:31:11 pm: Quote from: FPF-Tobin Dax on January 26, 2007, 08:53:04 pm
50% U.S.

35% Canadian

10% United Kingdom

5% everyone else

Quote from: Dizzy on January 27, 2007, 03:34:25 am
Then that's perfect!~ A USA Vs. server!

No 'neutral' ?? So us non-terrans get put into the generic minority catagory,...hmm.

I LIKE IT !!!
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on January 28, 2007, 09:22:42 pm: Do we even have any Quebecois around?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Alphageek on January 29, 2007, 02:20:20 am: How about hiring Pirates for hits? And I always suggest this, but how about attacking friendlies?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KHH-MiniMe on January 29, 2007, 12:41:44 pm: Hey all...Talked to Duck the other day and he mentioned a server might be coming along.... I'm Hoping....something I might be able to fly Klink in....lotsa PvP friendly rules ;)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on January 29, 2007, 08:22:37 pm: ;D Time to flaunt my ignorance....

Let's make this a completely TMP era mod using SFB style rules.

Let's add Klingon Academy Tholians and Sha' Kurians

Let's add ALL of WZ45's Andromedans

Lets throw in a bunch of TMP fanon, Klingon Academy and FASA ships to the mix this time...

Qapla!

KF
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Mutilator on February 01, 2007, 04:16:15 pm: Quote from: ShadowLord on January 28, 2007, 09:54:09 am
UMMM Dizzy

Its
Canada and the World
vs
USA and Quebec

Sounds better to me.

ShadowLord

(http://usera.imagecave.com/derfel/cats/Canada_Quebec_flag.jpg)

Duck why you gotta go and be that guy? Quebec is a part of Canada it's the Green one between Ontario and New Bruswick :D What maps you using up there in Ontario anyway? ;D

Viva La Belle Province!

Viva Le Quebec!

(http://usera.imagecave.com/derfel/cats/canada.jpg)
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on February 01, 2007, 04:31:18 pm: IMOHPO...
Not a big fan of the idea of USA vs... idea
Biggest sticking point, to me, is that half the still active members of KBF are not in the US.
IMOHPO, I would prefer Race alliances, the mixture of which isn't really important, as far as I'm concerned.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on February 01, 2007, 04:49:29 pm: Quote from: KBFLordKrueg on February 01, 2007, 04:31:18 pm
IMOHPO...
Not a big fan of the idea of USA vs... idea
Biggest sticking point, to me, is that half the still active members of KBF are not in the US.
IMOHPO, I would prefer Race alliances, the mixture of which isn't really important, as far as I'm concerned.

It's OK to admit that you're terrified of the Great White North...
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dfly on February 01, 2007, 07:28:31 pm: hmm, MUTT, that is Vive, not Viva, sorry.

I would love to see an 8 race 4 powers war, with 4 minor races having say a total of 10 ships each assigned to the other 4 races, if you get my meaning.
example: 4 major races : Feds, Gorn, vs Roms, Klink
10 Mirak sent to Feds
10 Hydran sent to Gorns
10 ISC sent to Klinks
10 Lyrans sent to Roms

or some such.

It can be a different mix of which race goes where, and maybe use demographics of player pool to determine the fleets with least pilots, and have those races be the 10 ship donors.
Once those ships die, they do not get replaced.

Only bad part is who chooses what 10 ships.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Mutilator on February 01, 2007, 08:32:59 pm: Je parle francais assez bien pour me tirer d'affaire, mais pour ma part je ne sais pas l'orthogographe. ;D

Voici ce dont il s'agit...Mon Canada inclure Quebec

VIVE LE QUEBEC! VIVE LE CANADA!
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lieutenant_Q on February 01, 2007, 08:55:05 pm: You havent been told?!

Canada, the United States and well...Mexico they are trying to compete with the EU and want to Merge into one nation. They want to have the merger complete by 2025. :D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on February 03, 2007, 07:26:39 pm: Quote from: Dfly on February 01, 2007, 07:28:31 pm
hmm, MUTT, that is Vive, not Viva, sorry.

I would love to see an 8 race 4 powers war, with 4 minor races having say a total of 10 ships each assigned to the other 4 races, if you get my meaning.
example: 4 major races : Feds, Gorn, vs Roms, Klink
10 Mirak sent to Feds
10 Hydran sent to Gorns
10 ISC sent to Klinks
10 Lyrans sent to Roms

or some such.

It can be a different mix of which race goes where, and maybe use demographics of player pool to determine the fleets with least pilots, and have those races be the 10 ship donors.
Once those ships die, they do not get replaced.

Only bad part is who chooses what 10 ships.

It may be possible to achieve that somewhat by using extremely long supply lines and requiring no new ones be made for that race(s) that is operating far from home... In fact if that were the case, even if there was a close LoS to a base or planet for that race, it'd be required no new ones be built or capped anyway.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBF MalaK on February 04, 2007, 09:35:47 am: Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on January 29, 2007, 08:22:37 pm
;D Time to flaunt my ignorance....

Let's make this a completely TMP era mod using SFB style rules.

Let's add Klingon Academy Tholians and Sha' Kurians

Let's add ALL of WZ45's Andromedans

Lets throw in a bunch of TMP fanon, Klingon Academy and FASA ships to the mix this time...

Qapla!

KF

YEA BABY !! That would be a cool server, time to get my 'Emperor' out of the yard.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on February 04, 2007, 09:55:45 am: Quote from: KBF K MalaK on February 04, 2007, 09:35:47 am
Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on January 29, 2007, 08:22:37 pm
;D Time to flaunt my ignorance....

Let's make this a completely TMP era mod using SFB style rules.

Let's add Klingon Academy Tholians and Sha' Kurians

Let's add ALL of WZ45's Andromedans

Lets throw in a bunch of TMP fanon, Klingon Academy and FASA ships to the mix this time...

Qapla!

KF

YEA BABY !! That would be a cool server, time to get my 'Emperor' out of the yard.
LOL.. and let's give it a projected start date of 2010 as we'd spend at least that long arguing about the stats.... :P
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBF MalaK on February 04, 2007, 10:33:03 am: Quote from: Hexx on February 04, 2007, 09:55:45 am
Quote from: KBF K MalaK on February 04, 2007, 09:35:47 am
Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on January 29, 2007, 08:22:37 pm
;D Time to flaunt my ignorance....

Let's make this a completely TMP era mod using SFB style rules.

Let's add Klingon Academy Tholians and Sha' Kurians

Let's add ALL of WZ45's Andromedans

Lets throw in a bunch of TMP fanon, Klingon Academy and FASA ships to the mix this time...

Qapla!

KF

YEA BABY !! That would be a cool server, time to get my 'Emperor' out of the yard.
LOL.. and let's give it a projected start date of 2010 as we'd spend at least that long arguing about the stats.... :P

At least it'll give us something to do.
;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Klingon Fanatic on February 05, 2007, 08:41:44 pm: Quote from: KBF K MalaK on February 04, 2007, 10:33:03 am
Quote from: Hexx on February 04, 2007, 09:55:45 am
Quote from: KBF K MalaK on February 04, 2007, 09:35:47 am
Quote from: Klingon Fanatic on January 29, 2007, 08:22:37 pm
;D Time to flaunt my ignorance....

Let's make this a completely TMP era mod using SFB style rules.

Let's add Klingon Academy Tholians and Sha' Kurians

Let's add ALL of WZ45's Andromedans

Lets throw in a bunch of TMP fanon, Klingon Academy and FASA ships to the mix this time...

Qapla!

KF

YEA BABY !! That would be a cool server, time to get my 'Emperor' out of the yard.
LOL.. and let's give it a projected start date of 2010 as we'd spend at least that long arguing about the stats.... :P

At least it'll give us something to do.
;D

Recruiting NEW Players:

IMHO, one of the main reasons I have never participated in an online campaign the TOS orientation of online SFC games. To be fair TNG games aren't my cup of tea either; that's overkill in an entirely different magnitude. The TMP era really seems to get left out and that was the era that made the most sense to me. I'd love to play in a TMP era only campaign someday.

Ideas regarding FASA ships converted to SFC:

Personally, I say through out most of the 1980s FASA Trek specs and start fresh by using actual SFC made modelsl to determine hardpoints/weapons. Kreeargh, Terradyhne, Atrahasis, P81, at. al, have done excellent jobs upgrading the original FASA ships they have brought into the game.

Second, I recommend that FASA TMP era ships of the same race/classes have STANDARDIZED warp/impulse and weapons systems. Yes, there are exceptions but the majority of the ships in each FASA race/classes should follow this rule in compliance with SFB traditions (E. g., FBB engines are BIGGER than a FCA's). This would be logistically sound make repairs/refits more economically feasible to each of the stellar powers.

Third, SFC is based on SFB so the ship definitions need to be UNIFORM. The FASA term for frigate is NOT the same as in SFB. I would argue that FASA Trek frigates are cruisers and light cruisers respectfully. The FASA Federation Chandley Class is not an SFB sized frigate and in FASA Trek game stats uses the same weapons/shield and engine specs as the Enterprise/Constiution Refit Class and is IMHO better designed to fight. Specifically; Knock down an emeny shield and beam in the marines to capture the bad guy ship...

What's to argue about? One way to handle the FASA/KA and Fandom ships is do something similar to what was done for the mechs in Mechcommander; offer three versions:

1) a base model balanced weapons/shields IAW with SFB racial specs and an actual SFC model
2) a version with more armor/shields and fewer heavy weapons
3) a specialty version that does something completely different from the norm

Example:

FASA Klingon D-10. I prefer Atrahasis' D-10B model myself. I use it as a heavy cruiser/battlecruiser and I personally ignore its FASA Four years War history and most of the FASA lore. Why? Because TOS already had the Klinks answer to the Connie; the D-7 and the K'tinga later challenged the Connie/Enterprise refit. I like to believe the D-10 was the TMP era Klingon Empire's answer to the Federation Excelsior class...

Version 1: Use Atrahasis' model and SFB Klingon stats to make a TMP base version; heavy on the Imperial marines plus torpedoes
Version 2: Spec the D-10B as a strike carrier; fewer weapons but two fighter squadrons and perhaps a cloaking device
Version 3: Maybe add a mauler version or one equipped with Rihiannsu plasma and a cloaking device

I would think that the SFB stat gurus can manage this.

Recommended ships with emphasis on NON-CANON ships. Note this is not all incusive many FASA/FANON/OTHER are junk ships IMHO. The majority of these listed ships are up at Battleclinic:

Klingon Academy: All KA ships not already making an appearance in the STOCK SFC OP+ ship list. Sha' Kurians are CV/fighter using mercenaries and can fill out the pirate slots. The KA Tholians perhaps could be X-era ships. I like the Gorn fleet depiced in KA.

FASA: Remora as FFF 100m version Chandley, Northampton, Loknar Refit (USS Phobos), D-10, D-16, D-18, Unseen Creeper as KFF, White Wind, Winged Defender, Aviary Starbase (well armed version), Pearl Mobile Repair dock to start with.

FANDOM/OTHER: USS Churchill (Gotafarmyet?'s version), Jackhill's Abbe Class (CV and PHT versions), Melak (WZ45's TMP version), WZ45's/Azel's TMP RBOP, Akyazi (Akula Subclass), K' teremeny, USS Illustrious, as well as ALL of WZ45's Andromedans.

Just starting the conversation...

KF
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on February 06, 2007, 01:55:20 am: Nice read KF. FASA stuff sucked me into the ST realm like a black hole never to get out again... I wasted so much of my time on fiddling with crap relating to the ship creator manual and other FASA stuff, but it was all so cool!

SG7 will feature mainly TMP era with a brief splash of the super fun TOS for the 1st few days. But it won't deal too far into TNG stuff, if at all. We will use the 1st gen X tech for the last few days of the server I'm sure... we've had great feedback on just how fun and balanced DH's designs are.

Anyway... I used the D10 model on a previous server as the default C7 model... back when I was a little crazy... to mixed reviews. I have used the Andor fed torp boat too... but no port variation of it has ever been really popular. I keep trying to sneak in tweaked FASA ships now and then when I can... BCE, D7T and NCM... but my efforts seldom get called anything but 'coffins'... heh
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on February 06, 2007, 07:16:25 am: I seem to remember a certain Mirak player that got smoked by the RA photons on a NCM...

@KF- not sure what you're looking for, may have misundersttod your original point- if you're looking at introducing new ships into the game, then you're going to have to decide everything from hull to shield strength to turn mode to weapons and arcs for every ship,
then this has to actually be balanced for PVP fights- not just because it looks cool, and has to be balanced against the ships currently in the game, both ones that exist in FASA and those that don't.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBF MalaK on February 06, 2007, 09:20:02 am: Quote from: Hexx on February 06, 2007, 07:16:25 am
I seem to remember a certain Mirak player that got smoked by the RA photons on a NCM...

@KF- not sure what you're looking for, may have misundersttod your original point- if you're looking at introducing new ships into the game, then you're going to have to decide everything from hull to shield strength to turn mode to weapons and arcs for every ship,
then this has to actually be balanced for PVP fights- not just because it looks cool, and has to be balanced against the ships currently in the game, both ones that exist in FASA and those that don't.

SFB has some great rules for creating starships and should be applied to the models built for other games. What they do is assign a point value and space requirements for each component/system on a ship and when finished you have a BPV that should determine what class the ship goes into.

I can live without the FASA and fandom additions but I'd sure like to fly a KA ship PvP in SFC> like the rommie Senator class or Klink warriors anger VS a Feddie BCH.

;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on February 06, 2007, 04:33:20 pm: i DONT HAVE AN ISSUE WITH PROTOTYPE SHIPS... oops caps. I think that with assignment of ships, which I'd be happy to do, at my leasure, we could have a cpl per side. So submit your design proposals and I'll take a look, run them by DH and see what he thinks and decide if it's all worth it. As of now we havent set a start date so no one's under the gun to get anything done so we have time to consider this and depending on the ship proposals we might have a few that look good. I just love some FASA designs and while there are models for them, we just need to work out their stats and see if having one or so per side of a few of them wouldnt unbalance things.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-Tobin Dax on February 06, 2007, 05:09:56 pm: I liked the FASA ships and would like to see a server with them. I have a shelf in the basement loaded with painstakenly painted models. I always thought FASA ships looked better. The Remora, Chandley, Andor, Baker to name a few. All nice, believable looking TMP ships.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: el-Karnak on February 07, 2007, 02:26:55 pm: Please add to ISC shiplist:

(http://www.bellsouthpwp.net/r/u/ruyger/images/I-BCV.jpg)

;D ;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on February 07, 2007, 04:16:43 pm: That ship has too much power... 42 mb and 8 ftrs. Oh, and don't forget deck crews, lol
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on February 07, 2007, 05:00:10 pm: Hmmm deck crews..deck crews... I know I had a brilliant idea a while back (that DH claimed he also thought of... bastard) that had something to do with deck crews..weird I can't remember..

Anyone wann do me a favour and go through my last, oh 300 posts or so and see if anything leaps out at you?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBF MalaK on February 07, 2007, 07:31:31 pm: I submit:

(http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/images/thumbs/1/1635b4814ea3569264d9ef62d4f631c4.jpg)

http://www.battleclinic.com/docks/files/dist/index.php/file,b07deb4c07bb7a1a15517f13ebfa280a.rar

I'll help work up the stats, and code if need be.

I know I saw a fix for the T/R (GHR?) beam !!!
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: SurveyCrew on February 09, 2007, 12:03:59 am: GIT ER' DUN'
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: el-Karnak on February 12, 2007, 12:33:22 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on February 07, 2007, 04:16:43 pm
That ship has too much power... 42 mb and 8 ftrs. Oh, and don't forget deck crews, lol

(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v430/astms/cookie.jpg)
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v430/astms/spoileroption.jpg)

;D :P ;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Riskyllama on February 12, 2007, 06:25:06 pm: Hexx, i think it was something like lowering deck crews, but increasing fighter counts per wing...but thats my no sleep for a day talking
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on March 05, 2007, 11:05:37 pm: Ok what about...

FRHL v KGIM
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on March 06, 2007, 04:56:15 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on March 05, 2007, 11:05:37 pm
Ok what about...

FRHL v KGIM

*Throws out a weeks worth of recruiting players based on races preferred.* >:(
I put it up on the Coalition forums for thoughts...
This is what I meant about knowing more details on the campaign would help with player organization. :-\
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on March 06, 2007, 05:00:33 pm: HA!

Mr "Oooh Hexx is all disorganzied and I'm making fun of him for not listening to ABBA! "

I *told* you.
(Well I mentioned it in a post somewhere) that we weren't sure of the sides.

<feels all superior like>

Yep
Why anyone tries to set anything up without asking me first is beyond me..
</feels all superior like>
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on March 06, 2007, 05:03:42 pm: Actually my superiority complex reminded me..

Are we hashig out some of the things suggested anywhere?
Any kinda RM forum for concerns/corrections?

You know, a place that avoids the u-n-w-a-s-h-e-d-m-a-s-s-e-s input?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on March 06, 2007, 05:09:07 pm: Two different suggestions were made, but, outside of the suggestions, no opinions were offered and neither forum has been set up appropriately.
So...no...no RM forums as of yet.
You'll have to continue whining here. :P
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on March 06, 2007, 05:10:58 pm: <sigh> guess I'll just have to jump in the SGO6 forums and start posting there.

Probably be an idea to read all the concerns that people had on the last server anyway.

Actually that's good idea...

Sometimes I amaze even myself.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Dizzy on March 06, 2007, 05:55:53 pm: Well, since I havent heard any suggestions... Look, it's not what race you fly for, it's the leader you fly for. Krueg, why dont you get your posse to fly Fed Gorn Hydran and Mirak and Hexx and his Alliance cronies will fly the other races for a change?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Hexx on March 06, 2007, 06:08:21 pm: Because I wanna flly the Fed CVA...

Just let me think about it and I'll tell you what the sides can be MMkay?
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: KBFLordKrueg on March 06, 2007, 06:50:08 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on March 06, 2007, 05:55:53 pm
Well, since I havent heard any suggestions... Look, it's not what race you fly for, it's the leader you fly for. Krueg, why dont you get your posse to fly Fed Gorn Hydran and Mirak and Hexx and his Alliance cronies will fly the other races for a change?

Um..No... ;D
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: FPF-DieHard on March 06, 2007, 07:13:23 pm: I'm more a fan of trimming stuff out than adding.
Title: Re: Now taking ideas for SG7
Post by: Lear on March 31, 2007, 11:59:02 am: heres a new one for you.(I hope)
an Enterprising Romulan Senator realises just how
nice the Klingon F6 is and has the Romulan government
buy one in 2271 a Year after they come in to service.
then has 1 of the 4 pirate cartels put in the special
control panel (that allows it to control both drones and
Plasma),change the disrupter to the KFR armament and
presto the Fox Fire class Lt Cruiser or R-K6R.
Love to see it happen.