Dynaverse.net
Taldrenites => Starfleet Command Models => Topic started by: Raven Night on August 30, 2007, 02:08:47 pm
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Ok, here's a mesh I've been messing with for a while now. Decided to post some pics to see if you guys like where it is going, and want to name her.
My plan was to place this ship in the "P class" size...if you guys know my ships, all the smaller ships carry a P name, mid sized ships are V names, and large ships are D names. This ship is supposed to sit around the size of the original TOS Romulan BOP.
To create her, I used reference pics from both bird beaks and the old BOP shots from the series and the net. I decided to do two things though....do away with the high wing idea, going with a low wing fixture for the nacelles (actually in wing), and also create a "canopy" or "hover" wing, similar to the type of wing the DDeridex has.
The reason for the wing type would be the same designer for the ship series. So, this ship is early TNG era.
The hardest part was getting the right look on the head. I needed to add a distruptor port, but still equate a beak design that could be identified immediately. I went with a small head, and a hook beak to give it a small bird look. I think overall it works, but I need your opinions on the matter...this is my first blatent attempt at the bird connection.
Final note...this is an early wip, so just the basic shape, no smoothing or details. Let me know what you think, and if you have any suggestions for a name. Thanks.
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V'hana-Haeth
-=shrug=- no clue, just sounded cool.
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I like the design a lot - brings the original bird of prey up top date. With the right textures (which you always do so well) she'll be a beauty.
How about R'Hapere - it is an adaptation for the Latin word rapere which means "bird of prey".
Nice job Raven, thanks for sharing her with us. How are the Feddies you've been working on coming along?
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Debello: (Latin) to conquer, vanquish.
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Cool!
Raven, thanks for sharing this non-Fed WIP with us.
Qapla'
KF
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dear lord no. if this is a nod to the original atleast make the nacelles something other than a D'Deridex.
Dear lord no lol....im guessing that means you hate it. Is there any way I can improve it? I already agree on the nacelles, I wanted to create a bridge between the dderidex nacelles and the old TOS nacelles and I completely blew it. I agree....they look like garbage. I wish I could leave the engines off it....it looks good without them.
I like the overall shape (minus the nacelles) but I am always open to suggestions, especially from those that have better TOS/TMP eyes then myself. This should be pleasing to both TNG and TOS/TMP fans....maybe not a slam dunk for either, but acceptable to both.
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I like the overall shape (minus the nacelles) but I am always open to suggestions, especially from those that have better TOS/TMP eyes then myself. This should be pleasing to both TNG and TOS/TMP fans....maybe not a slam dunk for either, but acceptable to both.
The first thing that comes to mind looking at her is that the nose is too short.
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Its not that i dont hate infact the curve of the body the top angles are awsome.. as is the rear, the underside im not fond of, maybe some type of pods either on the underside of the wing or make your lower hull wider (this think needs something for its talons)
I can do this...I can add bulges on the side of the bottom hull to equate talons. I think thats a good idea. I could also add pods as well.
keep the nacelles they work good for lost era, just not this design, (say for the next design) to inspire true TOS BoP your nacelles have to be longer ot atleast trailing behind slightly the wing.
The forward mark of the nacelles is supposed to equate the forward cant of the old engines, but as you said it really doesnt say "TOS"...perhaps I can create new ones and nest them farther back in the wing, with the bulges out back instead of out front. Ill give it a shot.
As adonis says the head is way too small.
The head Im a little resistant to, mainly because the TOS BOP actually doesnt have a head. I wanted to make something between the old and new, and I thought this was a good mid point between the old BOP and the DD. I can try a few things though.
i would also look at the Fire Hawk and the more well known TMP/Lost Era heads, i personaly thing a Firehawk crest running up from the beak, up maybe connecting to the tail fin (not sure it it would work but i would love to see it)
I could extend the rake in the back to the head. Let me try it out and post some pics.
also from the forward view your wings are increably thick, romulans tend to go for more flatter wings to help give it a more streamlined Wing like look, but that really isnt a issue. as i said the overall design is great, it just needs a bit of refining to bring it to romulan splendor.
That is actually an optical illusion. Instead of having "Stroke" wings, wings where the bird is either beating up or down for lift, this is a "Drift" wing. If you look close, you can see that the wing is styled after the top wing on the DD, so it is actually concave inside. It is actually quite thin, just curved to a semi-circle to the aft lateral edge.
i cant wait to see more (see i told ya i didnt hate it) its just just those nacelles beak and underside. I would also to show the early hints of the D'Deridex, i would put the typical disruptor port on the inside of the "eye" alcove on the head. Then you will have something truely terrifiing
Yea, the glowing "eye" on the nose is going to be the disruptor port. The coloring is just to let you know that is where its going. Im going to add a few old and new details on the hull as well, try to mix it up a bit.
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How about something like this? I extended the fin rake to the head and repositioned the nacelles, altered the fins in the fronts and placed them in front of the plasma vents. The engines are just place setters at the moment, but you get the idea.
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Well, not exactly what I ment, but better, the neck still needs to stand out more.
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the warp engine on the first pic should be a bit back, the 2nd pics are too much back.
beside that the ship look cool :D
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That is very cool. Please be sure to post more pictures when she's fully textured.
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Reminds me of a hawk or falcon gliding around looking for a kill.
I think you're on the right track with the nacelles, you should leave them in the second position but make them longer stretching forward. Have them poking out the front of the wing just past where the rake is now. D'Deridex nacelles in TNG where ridiculously short, as if they were an unwanted element that was forced on the model makers.
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nacelles of the original are too far foreward, the second just looks rediculous.
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Ok, how about these two options. Note, the nacelles are placesetters....just some dirty meshes thrown in place to give an idea of what I intend to do. They will look a bit more TNG, but will have more in common with the TOS BOP nacelles.
The two options are shown. Outboard, close to the edge of the wingtips, or set in a bit. Let me know which one you guys think looks better.
Also note that I have repositioned the nacelles to a more centered position. Let me know if it needs more movement.
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The first pic with the nacelles slid another half inch toward the rear, unless there's a reason you prefer centered or forward postions on them instead of a trailing one.
Also an idea for the shape. The TOS nacelles were round and the TNG ones were rectangular, why not make these oval.
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what about repositioning the nacelles so they are ontop of the wings and either side of the neck? or maybe just incorprating the nacelles into the wing mesh.
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what about repositioning the nacelles so they are ontop of the wings and either side of the neck? or maybe just incorprating the nacelles into the wing mesh.
Ive actually tried that....I originally had the nacelles on the outboard edge but on the dorsal side of the wing....that worked somewhat, but still didnt fit right. Then I moved them just to the left and right of the main spine....unless I shrunk them down to almost nothing, it still looked wierd. I tried close to the belly, on the wing tips....even on the spine and the belly, over/under. I wanted to go less conventional, but in the end the wide concave wing doesnt lend itself to radical engine placement....so I was stuck with just inside the lateral edge of the port/starboard hardpoint.
What I have done is shrunk the nacelles vertically, to flatten them a bit, giving them a more ovoid shape. I plan on giving them "talons" over the back edges of the plasma vent (the bulb in the front...ill go with an X configuration), something like what was on the bussards on the NX-01. I also added two small bulges toward the back of the tail underneath, to somewhat equate "legs", so to speak. I also moved the nacelles as suggested.
Here is the result sofar.
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I plan on giving them "talons" over the back edges of the plasma vent (the bulb in the front...ill go with an X configuration), something like what was on the bussards on the NX-01.
Nice touch.
It really says BOP to me now. Being around the size of the original, what role do you see it in? It'd be sad to see it in a scout role but at that size even harder to see it as anything above destroyer. Did they ever come up with a Romulan answer to the Defiant, big bang little package?
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I meant like this
(http://i12.tinypic.com/4z9jgo3.jpg)
I like the ship in all configurations so far and seeing as it is a nod to the older bops the wing adjustment may be totally out of order. the things under the wing tips is supposed to be a weapons pod.
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Thats actually an interesting idea....maybe ill do a variant with smaller top nacells and the pods as you show in your pic.
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My favorite is your orginal design or the suggestions by WoA. All of them are nice but that's my vote.
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I think your original concept is brilliant, though the engines did need rethinking. I wasn't sure of their positioning either, but the pushed-forward look is kinda growing on me. I love the hooked beak - it looks perfect on that ship. Pic 1c in your fiirst post makes her look exactly like a hunting falcon. Please do not change that bit at all! The wings are really nice, though I do wonder about what making the wingtips slightly narrower (and thus make her nacelles look longer without lengthening them) would do to her lines.
That said, the image in Reply #21 looks really good too.
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I like the concept and idea... some things to consider:
-Reversing the curve of the wings: have them sweep "up" instead of "down".
-elongating the nacelles: Warp nacelles didn't get stumpy until TNG.
-Nose weapon should be a Plasma torpedo: A triviality, but I always had the impression that the TOS plasma torpedo was much more powerful than the little bitty disruptor cannons of TNG.
-Change the color: every alien other than the Dominion and cardasians has ships come in green. Just a triviality... I recommend teal.
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All good suggestions, Ill give them a try. I appreciate the input.
I went ahead and left the nacelles where they are at the moment so I could work on the mesh itself. I added impulse engines in the rear, "talons" so to speak on the warp plasma vents and worked on the "beak", smoothing it and tweaking it a bit. Here is a pic that shows the talons....put two on top and one of the bottom, like a bird of course.
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that last one looks nice.
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Agreed, I'd love to get my hands on the finished mesh.
on a partially releated note, I sent you an email a couple of weeks ago about model permission (converting to armada) did you get it?
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that last one looks nice.
Here that thud?
Thats me falling out of my chair.
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Agreed, I'd love to get my hands on the finished mesh.
on a partially releated note, I sent you an email a couple of weeks ago about model permission (converting to armada) did you get it?
Sure, just follow our EULA.....Make sure our readme is incorporated into yours in its entirety, that credit to Nightsoft is given at the download link, and also make sure to allow open use and modding of your conversion....remember, any modification, alteration, or derivitive of Nightsoft products become Nightsoft property and fall under our liberal use policy.
In a nutshell, we own it, so anyone can edit it, even if you worked on it. They have to follow the same rules you do however.
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my thanks ;)
Also Nightsoft appears to be down? this is a pity cause I am looking for a Romulan battleship to make up... something big, anything come to mind?
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that last one looks nice.
Here that thud?
Thats me falling out of my chair.
rotflmao. You have your moments ;D
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my thanks ;)
Also Nightsoft appears to be down? this is a pity cause I am looking for a Romulan battleship to make up... something big, anything come to mind?
The server is up....
http://www.nightsoftstudios.com
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my thanks ;)
Also Nightsoft appears to be down? this is a pity cause I am looking for a Romulan battleship to make up... something big, anything come to mind?
The server is up....
[url]http://www.nightsoftstudios.com[/url]
Domain expired?
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I asked our account exec about it. He said it was current, but I had my doubts, so I signed in to the registrar myself.....sure, its valid.
Updated yesterday lol.
I guess he thought I wouldnt check up on him.
At any rate, the site should work fine now.
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nope, at least not the link you posted :-\
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Hmm. Is anyone else having trouble surfing to the site?
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no.
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appears to be up now, sorry for the thread hijack :) you mid if I make a low poly V'Karex and D'dmar as a battleship and dreadnought respectively?
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Yes, please, feel free.
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Ok, here is the latest. First, I noticed that the old BOP had what appeared to be 6 square impulse engines in the rear...the original model is lost, some have it, some dont, so I decided to add them. I also noted that they had a capsulated plasma caster in the nose, so I created something similar, but added one to the tail, as well as the plasma disruptor plate fore and aft, not on the original. Call it an upgrade.
Im not sure about the one on the nose. The one on the tail looks good. My idea is that now the pod is a pure disruptor bank, with two mediums and one heavy disruptor, to compliment the dual torp/disruptor plate below it.
I dont know if I explained this, but the glowing green plate you see on the nose of all of my romulans had a triple purpose...it emenates a field during warp flight, acting as the main deflector, and also can fire plasma torps or plasma bolts. it can also act as a reverse engine, as its design is similar to the rear impulse engines (no, the impulse engines in the rear are vents only, they are optimized for thrust.).
Now, to the warp engines, and why this design is similar to the old BOP. First, as it has been debated time and time again, the issue of Warp and the TOS BOP.
I say it had warp capability. It had to. However, one could say that the matter/antimatter engine was a copy of the federation design, and a crude one at best. The crystal used for the reaction was very inefficient, wasting huge amounts of fuel. Though the romulans were much better at tuning thier warp plasma to power other systems, llike weapons and such (the ships had an abundance of power, hence the ability to cloak), the engine itself gobbled fuel like it was going out of style, severely limiting the TOS BOP's range.
This takes care of the problem in "a day of terror", where scotty indicates the ship only had "simple impulse"....at that point that is all it had, as it was almost out of fuel, not enough to get the reaction going to go to warp. Only enough to menuver, and over the episode its tanks finally run dry.
Why point this out? Well, the guy that designed the ship was ousted for the design weaknesses. The new BOP (the Vdan) had a quantum singularity core, much more efficient, though still not as good as the Fed core.
So why revisit the design, a failed design in Romulan eyes? Well, Romulans were proud to serve on such a difficult ship to control, and truth be told only the best commanders were assigned to such vessels.
Now comes along the orignal designers son, and decides to exonerate his father, to show the design was sound. He redesigned the Vdan, created the D series ships, like the DDeridex, and made a name for himself.
Once he had enough clout, he revisited the BOP design his father made, and created this ship in his honor. He increased the size slightly, decreased the size of the shuttlebay, and equipped this ship with a matter/antimatter core, like his father had, with his improvements.
So, what does that mean? That means this puppy is fast...as fast as any Fed ship out there, a good match for the Defiant. Not as nimble as the Defiant, nor does it have as much armor or weaponry, but better shields, longer range and speed that matches the Fed escort.
So there you have it. Hope it didnt bore you.
Here are the latest pics, tell me if the cannons work for you guys. Remember, there isnt any smoothing applied yet.
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Well, aside from a few light tweaks, the top of the head is pretty much done. Still need to do the redo on the chin, reshape the wings a bit, and maybe integrate (attach) the nacelles to the wings. after that and a bit mroe belly work, and she should be ready for textures.
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I dont know if I explained this, but the glowing green plate you see on the nose of all of my romulans had a triple purpose...it emenates a field during warp flight, acting as the main deflector, and also can fire plasma torps or plasma bolts. it can also act as a reverse engine, as its design is similar to the rear impulse engines (no, the impulse engines in the rear are vents only, they are optimized for thrust.).
I'm going to sound difficult, but I'd like to see the designs for the "do everything" plate. Personally, I think it should stick as a navigational deflector while you have the ports above it configured for Plasma Torpedo firing (Center being the torpedo launcher, and the left and right nozzles firing bolts). Leave reverse power for thrusters or inverting the warp field to cause a reverse-motion effect. After all, with the exception of the Scimitar, I can't think of any Trek ship which has engines directed forward for reverse thrust.
Now, to the warp engines, and why this design is similar to the old BOP. First, as it has been debated time and time again, the issue of Warp and the TOS BOP.
One explanation of the BOP's Warp engines is that they are impulse Powered. Specifically, the same engines that drive a constitution's Impulse engines are also what makes the warp drives go on the Romulan BoP. This means that warp power works, but it is horribly underpowered.
I've also seen BoP era warp drives termed as "Stutter Warp" by Starfleet Battles.
The Starfleet museum mentions that perhaps the romulans detested the idea of annihilation of dual forces (antimatter and matter engines), which explained their transition to quantum singularities later. If they bypassed M/AM reactors altogether, they'd still be using fusion/fission reactors to power thier vessels in TOS (which is what powered the impulse engines of the TOS connie, IIRC)
So why revisit the design, a failed design in Romulan eyes? Well, Romulans were proud to serve on such a difficult ship to control, and truth be told only the best commanders were assigned to such vessels.
I never saw the BoP as a "failed" design. Considering it's weaponry was more powerful than the Klingon contemporaries of the time (and even the constiution), it at least had some sucesses. Old, yes, but still had a lot of potential.
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I'm going to sound difficult, but I'd like to see the designs for the "do everything" plate. Personally, I think it should stick as a navigational deflector while you have the ports above it configured for Plasma Torpedo firing (Center being the torpedo launcher, and the left and right nozzles firing bolts). Leave reverse power for thrusters or inverting the warp field to cause a reverse-motion effect. After all, with the exception of the Scimitar, I can't think of any Trek ship which has engines directed forward for reverse thrust.
Well, this is based in some fandom and some observation. First, most note most other races do not use visible navigational deflectors, with the exception of Cardassians and Romulans, at least according to fans. It has been said that the glowing spiral disruptor on the nose of Cardassian ships, as well as the Romulan nose green port are probably deflectors of some sort, and have also been seen firing bolts or beams of energy. We have also seen the deflectors on Fed ships used as a makeshift weapon a few times. The Romulan port in front has been seen firing both bolts and beams of energy.
Now, we all know the nature of plasma torpedoes...torpedoes with no case, simply a confinement module in the center that loses containment over time, lowering the power of the torpedo over distance. Note, Romulan torpedoes are incredibly powerful at close range, but not so much at long ranges, and are much slower than Photon torpedoes. I contend that all Romulan weapons use warp plasma for thier weaponry. Knowing the nature of plasma, one can conjecture it could also be used as a repulsive field.
As far as the reverse engines, technically all engines have the ability to reverse (though I have to admit im not sure how you can reverse rear-only engines), so I dont feel that a reverse engine use for this port, though limited in power, would be a stretch. I just decided for the Romulans to indicate the strengths and weaknesses of thier designs. This is just my conjecture of course.
Romulan ships remain underpowered at warp, with the exception of this design. They do, however have a huge surplus of energy. This allows extremely powerful weapons and sheilds, and quick firing rates. Torpedoes are slower and less accurate, and are weak at long range, but extremely powerful at close range. Romulan ships are basically ultimate alpha strike vessels, but have less staying power over longer engagements. Armor varies, but it much lower than Klingons.
One explanation of the BOP's Warp engines is that they are impulse Powered. Specifically, the same engines that drive a constitution's Impulse engines are also what makes the warp drives go on the Romulan BoP. This means that warp power works, but it is horribly underpowered.
I've also seen BoP era warp drives termed as "Stutter Warp" by Starfleet Battles.
The Starfleet museum mentions that perhaps the romulans detested the idea of annihilation of dual forces (antimatter and matter engines), which explained their transition to quantum singularities later. If they bypassed M/AM reactors altogether, they'd still be using fusion/fission reactors to power thier vessels in TOS (which is what powered the impulse engines of the TOS connie, IIRC)
I dont really like the detested annihilation concept. I would rather go with a more convential explanation, something like a stolen design, supported by the original series, and add details that support show comments and are more standard, like a reduced efficiency leading to a very inefficient plasma creation process.
I never saw the BoP as a "failed" design. Considering it's weaponry was more powerful than the Klingon contemporaries of the time (and even the constiution), it at least had some sucesses. Old, yes, but still had a lot of potential.
The weaponry power is not in dispute. As I have mentioned, Romulan weapons remain the most powerful known among the major players in the galaxy. The basis of the designs "failure" was more its very short range and testy engine design. The original BOP was redesigned in my conjecture (note: I contend the BOP in STSfS was, in fact, an original Romulan design aquired by the Duras family during thier collaboration with them, and redesigned for Klingon use) and was fitted with the new Quantum Singularity drive, which was disasterous (the ships imploded on themselves). The design was shelved, but was used successfully by the Klingons using thier M/AM core. Later, the design was revisited (my Vdan) and this ship was the designers tribute to the original BOP designer.
Now, on to the latest. I have tweaked the design a bit more, still needs a few more details. I added the wingtip details I wanted, finally got them right I think (I wanted them to be on the subtle side) and worked on the connections for the warp nacelles to the wings. Let me know what you think sofar.
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Ah, sorry about that. Here you go.
Note, the bottom details are not done yet, I have to take a closer look at the bottom of the TOS BOP before I settle on all the ventral details.
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This just keeps getting better, the feathered wingtips are a perfect touch.
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Perfect Changes - I bet she really rock once you lay on some original Raven textures. Thanks for keeping us updated.
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Very nice man.... gives me an idea 2 ;) ty
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Well, your typhon gave me ideas as well, specifically for pure troop transports. So I guess we helped each other hehe.
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the nose sorta reminds me of flight of the navigator.
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Ok, here is an idea....just an idea at this point, but I like it, wanted to see what you guys thought of it.
Ok, first, note the impulse engines. I wanted something similar to the original model, the studio model has 3 square vents on each side of the tail, so this was my take. There were also what looked like squarish vents on the top rear of the ship, so I added them as shown. Also note that I added two things the original did not have...a rear plasma cannon battery and plasma caster. This basically mirrors the nose setup.
Now, to the shuttlebay....note that I gave it a crows nest...meaning that half of the bay is exposed to space. This creates an open area where a ship can land behind a force field. There is another wall in back of course, with two hatches to enter the interior bay. Let me know what you think of this idea...I might even add a few details, like perhaps work consoles.
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I like the new additions. Nice details and logical evolutions of the design into a new era. I'd leave the consoles out of the poly count and use textures to show interior detail of the crow's nest.
Bottom line - me likey ::)
Can't wait to add her or your new feddie designs to my copy of SFC.
I'd like to retract my suggestion of R' Hapere (rapere is Latin for bird of prey) This is turning into such an original design, and you are most famous for your Romulan work, so... I think a fitting name would be T' Nevar. Romulan for you! Thanks for sharing Raven!
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I like the name suggestion. The only problem is that the lead character in the story "Infinity" is named Raven Noonien Singh, and I wouldnt want people to think that the ship was named after a Starfleet Marine Corps General. I might use some kind of "bird of prey" as the name, however...after all, thats what it is...
...and its mud in the eye of everyone that still clings to the idea (now proven unfortunately) the Klingon BOP was actually a klingon design. This ship and my story says otherwise.
At any rate, I had to make a change and I'm not sure about it. I could keep it, return it as it was, or modify it further to make it a bit fluid. The reason I made the change is I have a self-imposed poly limit of 4500 polys. This model, once everything was attached and formed, hit upward of 4900 polys. So the only place I could trim polys that would count seemed to be the round warp plasma vents. The only other option was to remove the old style distruptor pods front and rear, but that wasnt desirable....they connect the ship to the old design. Here are the pics of the changes, rendered and mesh....let me know what you think.
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Looks fine, reminds me of the Ent-D's nacelles a bit.