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Taldrenites => Starfleet Command Models => Topic started by: Bernard Guignard on October 04, 2009, 04:53:47 pm

Title: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Bernard Guignard on October 04, 2009, 04:53:47 pm: Does any one here remember some one showing Designs for TOS Era Excelsior starship I can't seem to find any drawings in vast Library of pictures but I thought some one had put some up at one time for Modeling purposes. :(
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 04, 2009, 05:14:20 pm: Atolm had made one from way back. I don't know where it went as I do not have a copy. You'd prolly be best off poking him for it.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Bernard Guignard on October 04, 2009, 05:17:11 pm: Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 04, 2009, 05:14:20 pm
Atolm had made one from way back. I don't know where it went as I do not have a copy. You'd prolly be best off poking him for it.

Thanks FOAS I did a search in the WIP and Models section and found that Markyd was working on one Atheorhaven released one.
I'll check WZ forum to see if I can find Altom's there
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Centurus on October 04, 2009, 05:47:03 pm: I think I used to have the TOS Excelsior. I remember it was released, but not much of a fuss was made about it. It was released because it had been so long and it was too good of a mesh not to be released. I forgot when that was though.

I know over on BCC someone was making a TOS Excelsior. Actually, there were 2 people making them. One was recent, the other a few years old. Don't know what happened to either one.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 04, 2009, 09:43:32 pm: The only one I know of that got released was this one
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 04, 2009, 09:49:02 pm: Quote from: GotAFarmYet? on October 04, 2009, 09:43:32 pm
The only one I know of that got released was this one

That would would be atolm's
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Centurus on October 05, 2009, 12:08:30 am: That's the same one I have. In fact, here are some renders. Mesh needs some updating to be honest. Wouldn't mind seeing someone do another TOS Excelsior.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Age on October 05, 2009, 01:42:50 am: Don't let Dizzy see this.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 05, 2009, 02:01:03 am: hmm I could try to do one for yall
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 05, 2009, 09:14:26 am: I can help make this ship.. If you like fellas.. could make that in my sleep whille sleep walking over a cliff edge :D
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Centurus on October 05, 2009, 03:08:23 pm: Quote from: joker on October 05, 2009, 09:14:26 am
I can help make this ship.. If you like fellas.. could make that in my sleep whille sleep walking over a cliff edge :D

You just volunteered. *looks over at Murray as Murray begins chaining Joker to a computer terminal*
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 05, 2009, 05:38:04 pm: If you guys want to recycle part of my excel, feel free (just gimme credit)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 05, 2009, 06:45:45 pm: Late to the party...

Yup, that was the one we did a long time back... and it could use a little updating. :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Rod ONeal on October 05, 2009, 09:51:36 pm: Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 05, 2009, 05:33:06 pm
Indeed..

The ship I refereed to earlier can be found here:
[url]http://www.scifi-meshes.com/forums/3d-wips/58185-ascendence-class-tos-reimagined-excelsior.html[/url]

Now Both Cent and I thought that It's a bit too ST:XI style in places. But as we have 4 meshers willing to jump in. We can take Ideas we like and throw the rest away....
Also for those that don't want to trawl through over 30 pages..... And for probable future reference.

Great modeling on this one!!! It's a bit too curvy overall, I think. The best looking STXI design I've seen though, IMHO. Of course, considering I hate the STXI ships from the movie it's not too hard to make a better one from my point of view. LOL Still, it's really really nice. Plenty to work with there if someone wanted to do a truer TOS design.

Edit:

Maybe use some design aspects of I Mudd's Helena?

(http://i275.photobucket.com/albums/jj319/I_Mudd/Out4aSpin.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 05, 2009, 11:32:06 pm: CRAP!
I forgot that existed >.<
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Magnum357 on October 06, 2009, 04:22:52 pm: I've seen that U.S.S. Helena model a while back aswell. It would have been a far better model concept for ST XI Enterprise ... oh well to late now. ::)

Also, I like the TOS Excelcior model you guys are showing, along with the that "Acendance" model, but I still would change a few things on them. Just my opinon.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 06, 2009, 10:00:31 pm: What I would do with the design

(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3702/excelchanges.jpg)

I WOULD keep the JJ-style nacelles, but thats becuase of how im making X-Ships.

In FoaS-trek there is an involved lineage of design. There was the early early early stuff - ie: things from the Starfleet Museum, those led into Kelvin-esque and NX-esque ships. Those evolved into TOS ships. Then came the first definate generation of X-ships. When starfleet made its major overhaul after TOS, it took a few contractors to design a series of X-ships. The JJ-esque-style (for me) is going to be among them (by one designer), there were also things like Schtupp's monitor (which ultimately one the contract) thus giving you the TMP ships. Among those X-sihps would be the TOS excelsior, but the design was shelved.
After TMP, a second line of X-ships came out (these will be the X-ships from SFC). among them was the Excelsior, which was done by the same designer as the TOS excelsior. This time they won the contract over the designers (of the SFC X-ships), thus giving you the TMP excelsior, and even the Ambassador.

BTW: all the "-esques" (ie: jj-esque, NX-esque, Kelvin-esque) all have my own spin - as usual :-)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 07, 2009, 02:41:29 am: So which part of this model would you like me to build?

Furyofaseraph:- they are very good observations.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Magnum357 on October 07, 2009, 04:26:04 am: I thought you were going to shoot for the whole design?? :P
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 07, 2009, 05:43:20 am: Really, I thought we where gonna build pieces together :huh:
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Anduril on October 08, 2009, 05:22:38 pm: Wow, Don't Shoot's NX-1900 is hot. I am going to have to revisit some places I haven't been to in a long long time. I tend to agree with FoAS's proposed modifications even though it is acceptable as is for that reality.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 08, 2009, 05:31:09 pm: Well, the original design is JJ-verse, which it works well for. It doesn't fly in the prime-verse without my mods, though.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 09, 2009, 02:17:09 pm: the buzzards would need a color change also, those disco ball buzzards dont work in real trek
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 09, 2009, 06:33:15 pm: So let me see so far we are discussing the ship on what it should look like then you guys are going to see if you each can build it in part or whole?

If so and some one maps it I am willing to help out in textures
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 10, 2009, 11:34:50 am: Definatetly, I will build whatever part ya need me too. Also when we have all the parts together, Can map or whatever. I like team stuff like this.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 10, 2009, 11:48:51 am: Since I'm going to find the TOS excelsior useful, I'll chip in in whatever way I can.

Have we settled in on a final design?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Commander Maxillius on October 10, 2009, 12:05:47 pm: I think I creamed myself a bit when I saw the Ascendant! wwwwwooooowwwww :smitten:
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 10, 2009, 12:18:32 pm: Personally, I'd start by looking at the TMP Excelsior design, then the TMP Constitution refit, then the TOS Connie and then look at what sorts of pieces could have been upgraded from TOS to the TMP Excel.

I'd think nacelles, secondary hull, deflector, bridge module, impulse engines, nacelle pylons, lower sensor package on the saucer. Secondary hull should roughly the same size seen from the top view (that appears to be a design feature).

Personal opinion, I wouldn't go for as much bling as the shiny disco ball version, I'd go more the Helena route. The disco version is very pretty and all, but I kind of see it as Olivia Newton-John in Xanadu.. she was gorgeous then, but how well did she weather? ;)

My two cents.. :D
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 10, 2009, 12:32:00 pm: speaking of the Helena - did Mudd ever release it?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 10, 2009, 12:39:48 pm: Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 10, 2009, 12:36:08 pm
Do we include any JJsytle?

Sounds like a poll question.. ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 10, 2009, 02:59:23 pm: Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 10, 2009, 01:15:35 pm
Quote from: atheorhaven on October 10, 2009, 12:39:48 pm
Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 10, 2009, 12:36:08 pm
Do we include any JJsytle?

Sounds like a poll question.. ;)

not my thread :P

That's okay, do a poll question in a new thread asking for blind random input.. maybe add a picture of the Ascension, the TMP Excelsior as reference, and the Helena to it. Just ask, which style would people prefer for a community built TOS era Excelsior... a) Helena-type styled, b) Ascension-type styled, c) Something different d) Why bother.... or something like that. :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Rod ONeal on October 10, 2009, 11:48:09 pm: Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 10, 2009, 12:32:00 pm
speaking of the Helena - did Mudd ever release it?

Yes he did, but the link to the model is dead now. Maybe PM him.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Rod ONeal on October 10, 2009, 11:49:45 pm: Well, I guess the first question is do you want it to be true TOS or not. If so, then the JJ universe style goes away. If you want it to be STXI style, then go all out that way, IMO.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Dizzy on October 11, 2009, 12:20:45 am: Quote from: joker on October 07, 2009, 02:41:29 am
So which part of this model would you like me to build?

Furyofaseraph:- they are very good observations.

Well, I dont agree with any of them. ;) Usually FOAS is right on target, this time, this model has unique styling ques that make it it's own kinda ship. You change it like FOAS suggests, it makes it too excellsorish. I love it the way it is.

Also, I Mudd's Helena is fracking gorgeous. Course this new ship is f*cking awesome!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 11, 2009, 12:34:02 am: to each there own, but i find flaw in your logic: this is supposed to be a TOS excelsior - so wouldn't more excelsior traits be good?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 11, 2009, 04:12:36 am: If we are talking this one then I have it
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 11, 2009, 11:50:32 am: Hey GAFY,
Think you could send that my way?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 11, 2009, 01:25:08 pm: Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 11, 2009, 11:50:32 am
Hey GAFY,
Think you could send that my way?

Wouldn't mind a copy myself. ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 11, 2009, 04:38:54 pm: Done and Done you guys should have it by now
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 11, 2009, 05:20:09 pm: personal input here, id go for Connie style nacelles but rotated, put the grey grid on top of the nacelle instead of the inner sides, then pull that grid to be longer and maybe wider running about 2/3 of the top of the nacelle. Pylons id leave alone they are already square which TOS pylons are. The cargo doors id reshape to not be so flat more bubble type and taller as a result. For the saucer, remove the senor dome and replace it with a more tradition TOS style dome. Impulse engines leave the line work, but remove the little balls on them flatten it out and add a line going down each strip to the engine exhast and instead of being curved make it more flat back but rounded tips like a connies with a an exhuase grid. The bridge id replace with a TOS style one, but make two visable turbo shafts on the module and not as oval shaped.

Deflector should come out from where the current TMP deflector is but instead make that area larger and rigged like a connie then a deflector dish poking out from it larger than the hole. Id also leave the top of the engy hull flat, leaving its basic lines intact honestly.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 11, 2009, 06:20:39 pm: Candle, I'm not sure if it's because of how much of a visual-centric person I am, or your tendency to write run-on sentences, but I cannot make heads or tails of what you just said.

Are you listing changes yuo would make to the Canon excelsior to make it TOS like? Are you listing changes to the JJ-Abrams-style excelsior posted in this thread, or are you listing changes to the TOS excelsior made by atolm?

"The cargo doors id reshape to not be so flat more bubble type and taller as a result."

I don't understand. to what cargo doors are you referring? the cut outs on the back/bottom of the excelsior hull, or the shuttlebay on the top, stern-most end of the excelsior?

"impulse engines leave the line work, but remove the little balls on them flatten it out and add a line going down each strip to the engine exhast and instead of being curved make it more flat back but rounded tips like a connies with a an exhuase grid."

1) take a breath.
2) Again, I'm not really sure to which version of the presented designs you are referring to. What 'little balls'? are you referring to the impulse deflection crystal, or the little running lights? Further, to what curve in the impulse engine are you referring - once again, without knowing which excelsior you are referring to, its hard to guess what you are talking about.
Are you talking about this curve?
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/6109/excelcurve.jpg)
or one of these curves?
(http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4416/excelcurve2.jpg)

It may help to use more descriptive terms than "little ball" or "that curve there". Yes, using trek or even real-life ship architectural terminology seems a little pedantic, but using them makes it easier for people to follow along with what you are saying.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 11, 2009, 07:14:34 pm: maybe this helps its crude.

Of course the colors would change, also i think a more TOS style looking saucer lip, but still pointed inward just TOS style, where the top of the saucer doesnt sit flat then buldge up but slopes from the rim up. The lines I mean it how the impulse drives are seperate at the rear keep them that way, just remove the obvious TMP styling and of course the crystal at the top for the impulse drive.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 11, 2009, 07:35:16 pm: I don't think that a simple kitbash or redesign of the excelsior will fly. I think that we need to approach in that we need to find the design that is the obvious predecessor to the excelsior that exists. That isn't going to be done by just adding TOS nacelles and a deflector dish to the excelsior that exists already.

I've been chewing on it in the back of my head - I think I'll be ready to render out a quick model in a few minutes.

EDIT:

Nope! Didn't come to me - I'll try again tomorrow.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 11, 2009, 10:47:36 pm: Quote from: GotAFarmYet? on October 11, 2009, 04:38:54 pm
Done and Done you guys should have it by now

It's here, and looking sharp. :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 11, 2009, 11:11:52 pm: Indeed, on both counts. Thanks GAFY
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 12, 2009, 12:05:05 am: I just used it for bashing together an idea (and I apologize in advance for the atrocities performed here this day on such a pretty ship).

I streched and mauled the Helena a little bit plus added in a couple of pylons from a TMP Excelsior just to see how it'd look, and it looks like how Scotty described the TMP Excelsior. ;)

But as a testbed of ideas, I could see this one. Bigger nacelles, another section in the secondary hull, flattened saucer keeping the standard TOS bridge, no back bump (to be upgraded in TMP times due to a lot of stress on the spaceframe in the back). Yup, could see it.

(No, not planning on releasing this, this is just an dea of the concept I had.)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 12:38:27 am: food for though, alec.

What we see in the excelsior, from a starship design standpoint, is a temporary shift on a couple of things. in proportion to each other, the saucer gets smaller and the nacelles and body get longer. The other thing is that the body shape goes from being a cylinder to instead being a half-sphere (shuttlebutts nonewithstanding). If we zoom out and examine other ship lineage, we notice that the TMP excelsior is pretty much the only major design to have a half-sphere body (i am referring to the idea that the top of the body is suddenly flat). Any other elements of a TOS excelsior will be easy to bring about - it may take a bit of poking and stretching, but in the end we will come up with something good. I think that the hardest question to be answered about the TOS excel is this: Should we maintain the half-circle cross-section of the secondary hull seen in the Excelsior proper, or should we embrace the idea that the TOS excel might've started off with a more traditional cylindrical secondary hull before migrating to the half-circle cross-section seen in the excelsior proper.

This question will decide the rest of the design, I think. It will determine what kind of neck we ought to use (A cylindrical body would make for a thin neck, ala Connie, but a half-circle cross-section hull needs a thick neck, like we see in the excelsior proper). The body shape will also determine how the nacelles are attached. Should the struts pop out of the body like on the connie, or rest on top. The saucer and the saucer extremities will be very easy to tag on, and I don't think that will be a problem.

I would also like to, as an example, point out the Garth-class crusier that atolm and Tus made. That has a very excelsior-esque hull.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 12, 2009, 12:54:28 am: The Helena hull isn't so far removed from the semi-circle actually.. imagine taking that external deflector and embedding it into the hull after you rework the front of the secondary hull to help protect it a bit more. You remove that little jog from above the deflector, and you've suddently got something very close to the TMP Excelsior for styling, especially if you then pancake out the top of the secondary hull when you reinforce the Helena's TOS spaceframe and create the flat surfboard top of the TMP Excel.

Again, the bash I did is just primarily a study model, but I could see a ship starting here and ending at the TMP Excel. Just not sure about the back pylons.. those could also go the standard straight pylons at first, but more sticking out like Mackie's "Davids.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 12, 2009, 02:56:25 am: Nothing stable has come to me yet lots of ideas started to float around my head though.

I think I will add somethings to consider though, from Madman over at SciFi Meshes
He did a JJ styled Excel and I do like the idea of his new federation fleet he is doing
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 08:50:41 am: My take.

Now this uses the nacelles of WZ's resolute - but more traditional TOS nacelles could easily be used without breaking the idea of the model... OR even JJ nacelles that have been TOS-ified.

(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/5499/tosexcel.jpg)
(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/7024/tosexcel2.jpg)
(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/5086/tosexcel3.jpg)
(http://img2.imageshack.us/img2/774/tosexcel4.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 12, 2009, 09:04:13 am: Nice man. I think the saucer rim should be at the same angle as a tos connie saucer though, and those necelles look great. ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 09:16:32 am: The edge of the saucer was an attempt at an homage to the excelsior proper. You'll notice that the dorsal and ventral surface forms conform to what the connie does, though.

The nacelles are actually WZs, not mine.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 12, 2009, 10:37:22 am: Yeah, I can see what you where doing and its real nice. But the saucer rim screams late TMP not TOS to me, but then its just one opinion dude.
Nice work

here is some necelles i have started on, very early yet and want to detail them much more
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 10:49:38 am: I like the design, but I think it may taper off too drastically.

BTW, you might be right about the saucer edge.
(http://img384.imageshack.us/img384/5398/tosexcel5.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 12, 2009, 11:42:02 am: here is my idea for them, i know im not helping build this but its a general idea, i like your nacelles but they dont fit the TOS Era to rounded and complex for the era, here is my take on what id thik as a possibility. Its a shape because im not on the projust didnt want to get into full design elements but maybe give you a basic idea

Edit well did this i might use this somewhere
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 12:07:25 pm: The nacelles I have on there fit into what I plan on doing with it - I refer you to my modeling thread. I even said in my original post with the design I even acknowledged that.
Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 12, 2009, 08:50:41 am
...but more traditional TOS nacelles could easily be used without breaking the idea of the model... OR even JJ nacelles that have been TOS-ified....

and actually - the WZ's Resolute style nacelles fit better with the TOS excelsior more than a typical TOS nacelle would, in order to further foster a ancestor/descendant relationship between the two
(http://img243.imageshack.us/img243/2153/excelnacellecompare.jpg)
BUT, this is a subjective matter, which is further built upon another subjective matter: TOS-Purism.
Again, in my modeling thread - there is evidence that I think that pure TOS design is outdated and shows its age when compared to present-day design qualities. After all, Star Trek is supposed to take place in the future - I don't think that the designs should stay in the 60's interpretation of the future (which is a major plus to Star Trek: Enterprise, I thought). This is why I've kind of "reformatted" the classic TOS look. This TOS excelsior further reflects that.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 12, 2009, 12:15:41 pm: yes i see your reasoning but the connie refit changed alot of the lines especilly on the nacelles there is nothing in common at all. And personal tastes for me, are a total dislike for JJ type anything lol
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 12, 2009, 01:39:08 pm: FOAS, I like the new saucer and secondary hull, but I think the front of the nacelles are too over the top personally. But then again, I think I'm leaning towards the '60's styling and not the Abrham's version. Simple, clean and elegant and grey. ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 12, 2009, 03:22:09 pm: This is more of a TMP Connie looking Excelsior but you can see how to follow the design back to a more TOS look with it as it has good design elements to it
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 03:31:20 pm: Good show GAFY!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 12, 2009, 07:13:23 pm: and how come you guys didn't ask me to help?
(http://outalance.battleclinic.com/tus/images2/gartho3.jpg)
(http://outalance.battleclinic.com/tus/images2/gartho2.jpg)
(http://outalance.battleclinic.com/tus/images2/gartho1.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 12, 2009, 07:15:25 pm: Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 12, 2009, 12:38:27 am
I would also like to, as an example, point out the Garth-class crusier that atolm and Tus made. That has a very excelsior-esque hull.

I brought it up!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: GotAFarmYet? on October 12, 2009, 09:56:49 pm: Atlom,
We all knew you would show up, us modellers have to be a patient lot to do this stuff. So why hunt you down, when we knew if we post a community project you would come?

Thanks for joining in and please if you have any ideas let us know
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 13, 2009, 01:43:34 am: Yup, at this point, we're not even past the squabbling over small minutea stage. Plenty of time for you to come in and contribute. :D

Think at this point, we're all agreeing on a primary hull similar to FOAS' and the one GAFY showed, secondary hull should be similar to the TMP version, with some TOS throwbacks (shuttlebay/deflector).. I think the three biggest bones of contention now are the nacelles (are they going to be TOS, WZ or Abrhams styled), the pylons (TMP bent or not) and do we go more for an Abrahm-ic styled look, or classic TOS.

That about right guys?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 13, 2009, 04:32:15 am: yea nacelles are the only thing i wonder about, though i was thinking about that, what if we take the basic shape of them, the rounded rectangle, add a rounded buzzard in the front recessed into it, but not all the way, remove most of the grill except the inside, smooth out the top, but instead of the handles add subtle fins instead like already on it. It would be TOS while still looking excelscior
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: joker on October 13, 2009, 06:35:46 am: Yes, that is awsome Furyofaseraph it looks spot on with that saucer.

Candle, nice necelles :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Bernard Guignard on October 13, 2009, 10:18:20 am: Quote from: atheorhaven on October 12, 2009, 12:05:05 am
I just used it for bashing together an idea (and I apologize in advance for the atrocities performed here this day on such a pretty ship).

I streched and mauled the Helena a little bit plus added in a couple of pylons from a TMP Excelsior just to see how it'd look, and it looks like how Scotty described the TMP Excelsior. ;)

But as a testbed of ideas, I could see this one. Bigger nacelles, another section in the secondary hull, flattened saucer keeping the standard TOS bridge, no back bump (to be upgraded in TMP times due to a lot of stress on the spaceframe in the back). Yup, could see it.

(No, not planning on releasing this, this is just an dea of the concept I had.)

Very nice Concept there Alec
;D :thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Bernard Guignard on October 13, 2009, 10:25:01 am: Quote from: GotAFarmYet? on October 11, 2009, 04:12:36 am
If we are talking this one then I have it

Would you mind sending that my way also I seemed to have missed that one :)

Thanks in advance.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: candle_86 on October 13, 2009, 12:19:30 pm: Quote from: Fallen_Warrior on October 13, 2009, 08:39:36 am
Ok, first off, I love what Fury has done.

I also agree that the typical 60's look is definitely becoming very outdated. While the TOS look is extremely Iconic and majestic, it could do with expanding and fleshing out... Remember if they had the budget and the facilities of technology that we have now or even 20 years ago. Things would have been more detailed and defined.

Saying that I have tried to keep as much of the original connie nacelle in this as possible. Only the bash I made has a warp grill on each side, to help reflect the nature of the of the Excel with has a band running around the entire nacelle.

I also added the Ingram's bay, as I feel the overall profile is lacking without something on the end of the secondary hull

Other than that, with what Fury has done is remarkable and is greatly in line with what I had in mind. Which also saved me a lot of time when it came to coming up with the pic. Thanx dude :D

i like it, though could the buzzard be larger to fit inside its casing entirely?
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Dizzy on October 15, 2009, 10:12:37 pm: Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 11, 2009, 06:20:39 pm
([url]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4416/excelcurve2.jpg[/url])

Oh my! This is absolutely lovely! OMG WOW!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: markyd on October 16, 2009, 07:37:16 am: I think if you ensure the ball of the buzzard is in the necelle recess, then your on for a winner ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 17, 2009, 11:05:51 am: Well seeing as I first attempted the TOS excelsior idea, I figured I re-approach the situation from a somewhat logical direction.
First: The ship would have to be either the conceptual/proposed prototype during late TOS or be a spaceframe that was kinda established to some degree already.
Second: The ship cannot just be a Direct retro-ization of the Excelsior, but rather a ship that was more in-line to the established fleet ethic(meaning it couldn't look so different, as it would then not be able to surprise the crew of the Enterprise upon seeing her in ST3).
Third: Establish a design lineage that again fits within the established fleet ethic, but still invokes some sense of originality.
Fourth: The ship's spaceframe was probably a rare thing, possibly relegated to specific roles, as the Constitution class were the real workhorses of the fleet(not to say that their were no other spaceframes in numbers, but Connies have been shown to be numerous, though they probably were not the most made designs, rather they were deepspace explorers that were not to come home anytime soon once launched)
Lastly: It the ship has to look cool (LOL)

Anyway, here she is, my interpretation of the TOS Predecessor of the Excelsior-Class... USS Endurance, Exemplar-Class starship:
(http://img194.imageshack.us/img194/9778/federationexemplarclass.jpg)
Enjoy :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 17, 2009, 11:13:03 am: I LOVE IT!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: markyd on October 18, 2009, 06:12:10 am: Thats awsome mate. ;D
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Bernard Guignard on October 18, 2009, 07:00:18 am: Wow Atolm pulls another out of his hat ;D Great work there
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 18, 2009, 01:26:02 pm: well I meshed her and handed her to FOAS to scale and tweak some things. He will then post some pics and the DL for anyone who wants to pop on some skins and hp so that there will be a more "original" TOS excelsior than my first :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 18, 2009, 01:51:12 pm: I'm not sure what I'm going to do about it.... Personally, I think that atolm's design fits the lineage much better than mine, so I think It'd rather run with his.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 18, 2009, 02:01:08 pm: (http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/3104/exempler2.jpg)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8706/exempler3.jpg)
(http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/8871/exempler.jpg)
(http://img188.imageshack.us/img188/3184/exemplerwithconnie.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on October 18, 2009, 02:12:52 pm: And here is the MOD file for people's enjoyment - remember credit goes to Atolm.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Chrystoff on October 18, 2009, 02:49:19 pm: This thing is just begging to be morphed into a TMP Ingram SCS. :knuppel2:
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: markyd on October 19, 2009, 02:24:32 am: Very nice mate, quick too ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 19, 2009, 07:31:33 pm: thnx mate, but she's in your hands(as in who ever wants to mess with her) It was just my contribution to the thread
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 21, 2009, 07:35:28 pm: Hmmmm got some real quiet place you guys got here
:buck2:
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: ModelsPlease on October 26, 2009, 09:05:59 am: For those interested over at BC someone has done a JJ Abrams inspired Excel.....

http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Baz1701_JJ_Excelsior;104107 (http://bridgecommander.filefront.com/file/Baz1701_JJ_Excelsior;104107)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on October 26, 2009, 11:17:12 am: D00d, you need to visit Photobucket so we can see your sig pic. ;)

Btw, glad to see you trickling back in.. you were missed. :D
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Anthony Scott on October 30, 2009, 03:33:58 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on October 15, 2009, 10:12:37 pm
Quote from: Furyofaseraph on October 11, 2009, 06:20:39 pm
([url]http://img408.imageshack.us/img408/4416/excelcurve2.jpg[/url])

Oh my! This is absolutely lovely! OMG WOW!

I like this one more than any other in this thread. It captures the style and flavor of the J.J. Abrams Trek perfectly! Keep going with this design, that's my vote!
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on October 31, 2009, 12:02:03 pm: LOL...we are not doing a JJ version of the excelsior, its a TOS type :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 12:31:04 pm: Quote from: Atolm-Rising on October 31, 2009, 12:02:03 pm
LOL...we are not doing a JJ version of the excelsior, its a TOS type :)

Then do one better than I Mudd's Helena. That ship is is faster than any in this thread cept for the JJ Abrams style. TOS ships WOULDA SHOULDA COULDA looked like that, cept techno back then 35 years ago was sloppy. The entire TOS style needs be scrapped and we should go with a JJ Abrams style reinvisioning. It's simply better, faster, stronger. That is all.

(http://www.dynaverse.net/forum/index.php?action=dlattach;topic=163388671.0;attach=19190;image)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 01:33:32 pm: I respectfully disagree. I think the TOS models are outdated and antique. JJ Abrams reinvisioning breathes new life into a boring and outmoded design. It's like comparing WW1 fighter planes to those of WW2. While the WW1 ftrs are still interesting and nostalgic and stuff, the WW2 ftrs best them in every way. It's like going from a square wheel to a round one.

Dunno why anyone would want to mess with TOS plain jane models anymore when the JJ Abrams reinvisioning is so asthetically pleasing. It's a breath of fresh air that will keep us going. TOS is dried up, been there done that. Let's move on please.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: FoaS_XC on December 07, 2009, 01:47:01 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 12:31:04 pm
Quote from: Atolm-Rising on October 31, 2009, 12:02:03 pm
LOL...we are not doing a JJ version of the excelsior, its a TOS type :)

Then do one better than I Mudd's Helena.

He did make a model.

Quote from: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 01:33:32 pm
I respectfully disagree. I think the TOS models are outdated and antique. JJ Abrams reinvisioning breathes new life into a boring and outmoded design. It's like comparing WW1 fighter planes to those of WW2. While the WW1 ftrs are still interesting and nostalgic and stuff, the WW2 ftrs best them in every way. It's like going from a square wheel to a round one.

Dunno why anyone would want to mess with TOS plain jane models anymore when the JJ Abrams reinvisioning is so asthetically pleasing. It's a breath of fresh air that will keep us going. TOS is dried up, been there done that. Let's move on please.

I respectfully disagree with you, Dizzy. TOS Might look outdated, and outmoded. And to a degree: it is. I think for many people it is indeed a sense of nostalgia that keeps it very much alive. For others, like myself, It actually is because we find them aesthetically pleasing despite their age. Clean, unbroken surfaces, Bussards that are magnets for the eyes, Deflectors that are obvious in their nature (parabolic? Genius!). I do see where you are coming from, though.

I don't think JJ abrams is a good replacement. I like the Abrams Style, but not as a direct replacement for TOS. Its a seperate beast. I don't think TOS is dried up. In fact: I for one like where I took it, but I'm pretty biased.

(http://www.robinomicon.com/c/infusions/pro_download_panel/images/bismarck.jpg)
(http://www.robinomicon.com/c/infusions/pro_download_panel/images/federation.jpg)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: atheorhaven on December 07, 2009, 01:57:13 pm: Quote from: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 01:33:32 pm
I respectfully disagree. I think the TOS models are outdated and antique. JJ Abrams reinvisioning breathes new life into a boring and outmoded design. It's like comparing WW1 fighter planes to those of WW2. While the WW1 ftrs are still interesting and nostalgic and stuff, the WW2 ftrs best them in every way. It's like going from a square wheel to a round one.

Dunno why anyone would want to mess with TOS plain jane models anymore when the JJ Abrams reinvisioning is so asthetically pleasing. It's a breath of fresh air that will keep us going. TOS is dried up, been there done that. Let's move on please.

I don't know, I'd say I disagree with your disagreement. ;)

There are also reasons why people go to antique car shows and rebuild old cars.. they like the styling and the look. TOS styling may be old, but it's simple and not all iPod. Think about the differences on the Apple line for instance.. Steve Jobs helped design the look of the original Apple ][ and Macintosh computers, and moved on to the current Mac lines. But there are still people that like and use and rebuild the old Macs. And the WWI planes were awesome, you don't see many biplanes in the sequel.. :D

A '57 Chevy will always have that classic look, and I think TOS has the same appeal personally. People buy PT Cruisers, but it's not a '48 Chev panel truck. People buy new Ford Thunderbirds, but it's not a '58 T-Bird. I personally am of the opinion that the Abrahmiverse look is PT Cruisering the TOS look, and if it's your thing, more power to you. But not everyone likes the new look, and the last I looked, the thread was talking about updating the TOS Excelsior of Chris'.

I *think* that someone, (even I could do it I suppose), should start a thread requesting an Abrham's styled Excelsior.. so we're not beating up on anyone wanting the TOS styling.

Not trying to honk anyone off here, just more trying to get the thread back on topic (weird enough for me that that is). ;)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 08:03:03 pm: Well, to a point, I do love TOS. I had a mod on a server once where all my fed models were TOS all the way thru the X era. But with a new style and a different timeline and a license to throw away everything in TOS as it stood for something new and fresh, why not take the leap?

I'd love to see a JJ Abrams style fleet. Course I'd not get rid of my TOS models either.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: ModelsPlease on December 08, 2009, 03:47:10 am: I love TOS as well. When I saw "Through a Mirror..." I was jubilated to say the least how, great a modern SFX rendition of a connie looked on screen.

As for a TOS Excelsior........ there is a TOS one. She's a Connie

NCC - 1718 U.S.S. Excelsior <"Court Martial," "The Sleeping God">

SO lineage wise she's already of the same track as the Enterprise......

TOS - Ent & Excel = Connies
TMP - Ent (refit) later Ent & Excel = Excelsior Class and B refit
LOST Era - Ent = Ambassador Class, Excel = ?
TNG - Ent = GalaxyClass later Sovie Class Excel = ?

Why not focus on what comes next ? Just a thought
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: KBF_Gow on December 25, 2009, 04:16:52 am: Quote from: Dizzy on December 07, 2009, 01:33:32 pm
I respectfully disagree. I think the TOS models are outdated and antique. JJ Abrams reinvisioning breathes new life into a boring and outmoded design. It's like comparing WW1 fighter planes to those of WW2. While the WW1 ftrs are still interesting and nostalgic and stuff, the WW2 ftrs best them in every way. It's like going from a square wheel to a round one.

Dunno why anyone would want to mess with TOS plain jane models anymore when the JJ Abrams reinvisioning is so asthetically pleasing. It's a breath of fresh air that will keep us going. TOS is dried up, been there done that. Let's move on please.

I have never flown Fed, but, I have more TOS styled and inspired Federation ships on my HD than any other type. Aesthetically, they are the vessels I prefer, much more than shiny pointy glowie wowowow TNG or even TMP styles.

I prefer the TOS style done on conjectural classes and variants never seen in any movie. I love the little TOS style jewels I find, police cutters and frigates particularly.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on December 28, 2009, 06:28:57 pm: Well My TOS Ship is there for the texturing, if you want it,
I also have a crap load of unfinished projects ranging from Feds(experimental) to my fav the Roms :)
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: KBF_Gow on December 29, 2009, 01:16:04 am: I was thinking that the lineage for TOS would be more Belknap to Excelsior type than Connie to Excel.
Title: Re: TOS Excelsior
Post by: Atolm-Rising on December 29, 2009, 06:16:15 am: That makes interesting logic. Though I believe the the USS Excelsior to be a Connie, the ship I posted is supposed to be the Space-frame that would lead to the "Great Experiment".