Post by: Draco on January 28, 2003, 10:13:45 am
Post by: Max zero on January 28, 2003, 11:08:36 am
If anyone needs engine space its the Klingons.
Rom tactic's tend to lean towards the cloak and alpha strike. Generally engines ,while always useful, are not super important in this case.
For Roms its all about cloak and weapons. After thinking about it I think Rom's do not need more weapon mass. What they need is better weapons to use that mass. Rom disruptors and plasma are crap. Sorta leaves the Rom with few choices hey?
Make all Rom disruptors do more damage and have higher recycle times and lower plasma mass. Do not give a Warbird a new rear hard point give them another forward. You know there is something wrong when a Defiant has more heavy heardpoints then your DN.
Cloak de-cloak is faster. Cloaking speed the same. Make surprise attacks a real surprise but also make Rom (Kling) players put a bit more effort into the getaway.
Even with cloak/alpha Rom's take a big risk (which crap armour and all) the least you could do is give them the best alphas.
Post by: Blitzkrieg on January 28, 2003, 12:18:14 pm
Only my oppinion of course, I would hope that this wont even be a question when the patch comes out
Post by: Aenigma on January 28, 2003, 12:42:43 pm
? (Or of course a lighter Quantum Singularity Drive instead of the warpcore X, but it will have the same effect as adding more engine space.)Aenigma
Post by: Draco on January 28, 2003, 01:45:17 pm
Post by: Blitzkrieg on January 28, 2003, 02:30:17 pm
Post by: Semper on January 28, 2003, 05:13:20 pm
Maxed out DN's, all the Shield, Weapons, Hull and Bridge mass used. On top of that a Warp core X (10)
Engine-mass left after warp core X installed
Galaxy ------- 1300
Sovereign ---- 2300
Negh'var ----- 2500
Warbird ------ 1850
Sphere prime - 2800
Now you are gonna say "Ha see, the Warbird needs more"
Well the Warbirds age is the same as a Galaxy, where both the Sovereign and the Negh'var are of a much newer date, the Sphere who knows, so looking at that I would say the mass seem fine.
Just a few more numbers, all ships as before, only thing added is a legendary crew.
Galaxy Thruster III + Impulse III -- Speed 17,31 Turn 0,42 Mass 47750
Sovereign Thruster V Impulse V -- Speed 21,81 Turn 0,48 mass 53700
Negh'var Thruster VI Impulse V -- Speed 28,36 Turn 0,70 Mass 52850
Warbird Thruster V Impulse V ---- Speed 26,37 Turn 0,56 Mass 47750
Sphere P. Thruster VI Impulse VI - Speed 37,81 Turn 0,76 Mass 33350
Let me guess now, what you are gonna say, "see it's about 6000 short in mass compared with the Sovereign or Negh'ver..."
Well Romulan shield X is 1500 less in mass than the same Federation or Klingon shield X, but at the same time it has same strenght and power need as the Klingons shield X, now add 1500 with 4.
Also adding to this is Romulan thrusters have less mass, but more power than Federation thrusters, Klingon thrusters lead the way. Impulse are almost the same as with thrusters, only that here Romulan lead the way with low mass, high output.
Now with all this said... do the Warbird still need more engine-mass ???
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on January 28, 2003, 07:48:33 pm
Quote:
Now with all this said... do the Warbird still need more engine-mass ???
Don't....know....Semper
am....hypnotized...by
your......avatar.......
Post by: jdmckinney on January 29, 2003, 08:57:20 am
Post by: Aenigma on January 29, 2003, 09:59:28 am
Quote:
in fact, the lower the mass, the better the speed and turns, so having low-mass systems with high efficiency is much better than having a hulking behemoth of a ship lumbering around like a Cube. If people want such a ship, add the Scimitar
That's why you should NEVER throw in lvl X shields into a warbird. You WILL get an even more lumbering heap of bolts, steel and high-tech machinery, just because shields are for all races (except the borg, for obvious reasons) so darned heavy. The Warbird shouldn't be flown like a brick, that's what we have sovereigns and spheres for. Next heavy thing though is the warpcore, and you'll need a big one if you want to be able to deal out some real damage. You wont be able to dish out the same large quantity of damage over a period of time, like Sphere Primes and Sovereigns can. That's why you must have a big warpcore. You must hit hard if you are able to, and you must be manouvrable to be able to do it. To have to warp around a sov to get to his back gives the problems of being easily detected by acs and flying on this low impulse just gives too much risk due to the probes. Even sovs can turn faster than you are able to fly past them, always nice if you are probed when doing that. Even a little increase in speed can bring somewhat more balance.
You might bring against me that you should turn if he rotates in the same direction as you try to get to his back, but then i might say that you can't actually turn your warbird like a b'rel, and that he will have another probe ready by the time you are already halfway turning.
I never cared much for figures as it comes to the warbird. There are lies, big lies and statistics as they say. I know how it flies, and it is extremely difficult to fly one well, though i can manage to some extent, because they either don't try to probe me, or they dont put on their acs-s or i was just a lucky guy to be able to warp behind them.
I invite everyone to fly the warbird for once and say how they handle it. Not the warbird battlecruiser outfit of course, which is just a warbird with lvl IX core, but so little power to feed those heavy plasmas that you need to give others a punch, but moves a lot better; no, try the warbird dreadnought instead and tell me how you fly it to glory.
Aenigma
Post by: Max zero on January 29, 2003, 10:19:27 am
Once question since Sov's have just as much (if not more) firepower to the rear as to the front why would you fly behind them? Wouldn't flying to the side of them make more sense?
Just curious thats all.
Post by: Aenigma on January 29, 2003, 10:23:25 am
Quote:
Once question since Sov's have just as much (if not more) firepower to the rear as to the front why would you fly behind them? Wouldn't flying to the side of them make more sense?
Just curious thats all.
Well that depends really. If they have a heavily loaded back section i flank them, but since most concentrate their weapons on the front, i usually fly behind them, or under 30 degrees (to avoid the single quantum torpedo they might have there).
Not all feds design their ships the same way. Some go for equal heavies on both ends and some concentrate on the front arcs.
Post by: Remiak on January 29, 2003, 04:30:05 pm
I have played on some server where the mass was upgraded and it does help.
The real problem is an alpha strike that is not sufficently powerfull.
Adding engine mass can help to have a level 10 warp core allowing more overload energy to the weapons while keeping adequate trusters and impulse.
Since the Rom's weapons are being reviewed with the patch, this need may be somewhat aleviated and the WB may not need additionnal engine mass.
I therefore, would rather reserve my opinion for later.
Thanks
Post by: Scorpion on January 29, 2003, 05:26:14 pm
Post by: Draco on January 28, 2003, 10:13:45 am
Post by: Max zero on January 28, 2003, 11:08:36 am
If anyone needs engine space its the Klingons.
Rom tactic's tend to lean towards the cloak and alpha strike. Generally engines ,while always useful, are not super important in this case.
For Roms its all about cloak and weapons. After thinking about it I think Rom's do not need more weapon mass. What they need is better weapons to use that mass. Rom disruptors and plasma are crap. Sorta leaves the Rom with few choices hey?
Make all Rom disruptors do more damage and have higher recycle times and lower plasma mass. Do not give a Warbird a new rear hard point give them another forward. You know there is something wrong when a Defiant has more heavy heardpoints then your DN.
Cloak de-cloak is faster. Cloaking speed the same. Make surprise attacks a real surprise but also make Rom (Kling) players put a bit more effort into the getaway.
Even with cloak/alpha Rom's take a big risk (which crap armour and all) the least you could do is give them the best alphas.
Post by: Blitzkrieg on January 28, 2003, 12:18:14 pm
Only my oppinion of course, I would hope that this wont even be a question when the patch comes out
Post by: Aenigma on January 28, 2003, 12:42:43 pm
? (Or of course a lighter Quantum Singularity Drive instead of the warpcore X, but it will have the same effect as adding more engine space.)Aenigma
Post by: Draco on January 28, 2003, 01:45:17 pm
Post by: Blitzkrieg on January 28, 2003, 02:30:17 pm
Post by: Semper on January 28, 2003, 05:13:20 pm
Maxed out DN's, all the Shield, Weapons, Hull and Bridge mass used. On top of that a Warp core X (10)
Engine-mass left after warp core X installed
Galaxy ------- 1300
Sovereign ---- 2300
Negh'var ----- 2500
Warbird ------ 1850
Sphere prime - 2800
Now you are gonna say "Ha see, the Warbird needs more"
Well the Warbirds age is the same as a Galaxy, where both the Sovereign and the Negh'var are of a much newer date, the Sphere who knows, so looking at that I would say the mass seem fine.
Just a few more numbers, all ships as before, only thing added is a legendary crew.
Galaxy Thruster III + Impulse III -- Speed 17,31 Turn 0,42 Mass 47750
Sovereign Thruster V Impulse V -- Speed 21,81 Turn 0,48 mass 53700
Negh'var Thruster VI Impulse V -- Speed 28,36 Turn 0,70 Mass 52850
Warbird Thruster V Impulse V ---- Speed 26,37 Turn 0,56 Mass 47750
Sphere P. Thruster VI Impulse VI - Speed 37,81 Turn 0,76 Mass 33350
Let me guess now, what you are gonna say, "see it's about 6000 short in mass compared with the Sovereign or Negh'ver..."
Well Romulan shield X is 1500 less in mass than the same Federation or Klingon shield X, but at the same time it has same strenght and power need as the Klingons shield X, now add 1500 with 4.
Also adding to this is Romulan thrusters have less mass, but more power than Federation thrusters, Klingon thrusters lead the way. Impulse are almost the same as with thrusters, only that here Romulan lead the way with low mass, high output.
Now with all this said... do the Warbird still need more engine-mass ???
Post by: **DONOTDELETE** on January 28, 2003, 07:48:33 pm
Quote:
Now with all this said... do the Warbird still need more engine-mass ???
Don't....know....Semper
am....hypnotized...by
your......avatar.......
Post by: jdmckinney on January 29, 2003, 08:57:20 am
Post by: Aenigma on January 29, 2003, 09:59:28 am
Quote:
in fact, the lower the mass, the better the speed and turns, so having low-mass systems with high efficiency is much better than having a hulking behemoth of a ship lumbering around like a Cube. If people want such a ship, add the Scimitar
That's why you should NEVER throw in lvl X shields into a warbird. You WILL get an even more lumbering heap of bolts, steel and high-tech machinery, just because shields are for all races (except the borg, for obvious reasons) so darned heavy. The Warbird shouldn't be flown like a brick, that's what we have sovereigns and spheres for. Next heavy thing though is the warpcore, and you'll need a big one if you want to be able to deal out some real damage. You wont be able to dish out the same large quantity of damage over a period of time, like Sphere Primes and Sovereigns can. That's why you must have a big warpcore. You must hit hard if you are able to, and you must be manouvrable to be able to do it. To have to warp around a sov to get to his back gives the problems of being easily detected by acs and flying on this low impulse just gives too much risk due to the probes. Even sovs can turn faster than you are able to fly past them, always nice if you are probed when doing that. Even a little increase in speed can bring somewhat more balance.
You might bring against me that you should turn if he rotates in the same direction as you try to get to his back, but then i might say that you can't actually turn your warbird like a b'rel, and that he will have another probe ready by the time you are already halfway turning.
I never cared much for figures as it comes to the warbird. There are lies, big lies and statistics as they say. I know how it flies, and it is extremely difficult to fly one well, though i can manage to some extent, because they either don't try to probe me, or they dont put on their acs-s or i was just a lucky guy to be able to warp behind them.
I invite everyone to fly the warbird for once and say how they handle it. Not the warbird battlecruiser outfit of course, which is just a warbird with lvl IX core, but so little power to feed those heavy plasmas that you need to give others a punch, but moves a lot better; no, try the warbird dreadnought instead and tell me how you fly it to glory.
Aenigma
Post by: Max zero on January 29, 2003, 10:19:27 am
Once question since Sov's have just as much (if not more) firepower to the rear as to the front why would you fly behind them? Wouldn't flying to the side of them make more sense?
Just curious thats all.
Post by: Aenigma on January 29, 2003, 10:23:25 am
Quote:
Once question since Sov's have just as much (if not more) firepower to the rear as to the front why would you fly behind them? Wouldn't flying to the side of them make more sense?
Just curious thats all.
Well that depends really. If they have a heavily loaded back section i flank them, but since most concentrate their weapons on the front, i usually fly behind them, or under 30 degrees (to avoid the single quantum torpedo they might have there).
Not all feds design their ships the same way. Some go for equal heavies on both ends and some concentrate on the front arcs.
Post by: Remiak on January 29, 2003, 04:30:05 pm
I have played on some server where the mass was upgraded and it does help.
The real problem is an alpha strike that is not sufficently powerfull.
Adding engine mass can help to have a level 10 warp core allowing more overload energy to the weapons while keeping adequate trusters and impulse.
Since the Rom's weapons are being reviewed with the patch, this need may be somewhat aleviated and the WB may not need additionnal engine mass.
I therefore, would rather reserve my opinion for later.
Thanks
Post by: Scorpion on January 29, 2003, 05:26:14 pm